Alabama Supreme Court rules that IVF embryos may be considered unborn children

[x65943]

In deciding whether a lawsuit could be put forward regarding the loss of frozen embryos at an Alabama fertility clinic, the court's majority opinion found that frozen embryos should be afforded the same privileges and protections as other unborn children

To be clear Alabama imposes significant restrictions on abortion, and a dissenting opinion predicts this will spell the end for IVF fertility treatments in Alabama due to the inevitable loss of viable embryos inherent in IVF

It remains unclear whether the SCOTUS would hear an appeal to this case, but any finding that upholds such a ruling would have deep and long lasting implications - to this point case law has treated embryos as property akin to stored blood or semen, and the full effect of treating embryos as unborn children remains to be seen

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...os-can-be-considered-children-under-state-law

 

[The Catboy]

Alabama continues to remind everyone that they are by far the worst state in every sense of the word

 

[Xzi]

Let's see how long this lasts after some Alabama women start claiming 20+ dependents on their taxes. New infinite money glitch.

 

[supermist]

What happens when there's a power outage then

 

[Xzi]

What happens when there's a power outage then

The company would be held liable for X number of murders. Nobody's going to want to take that risk, so it's basically a roundabout method of ending IVF in the state altogether. Republicans once again demonstrating that they hate both freedom and science.

 

[supermist]

Clinics in the state are reportedly pausing a lot of the services due to the liability now

Post automatically merged: Feb 23, 2024

 

[Foxi4]

It’s a very weird ruling. They’re throwing the embryos out with the bath water. There are two sides to this debate, and both of them are wrong. One side claims that human embryos are not in fact human beings in the embryonic stage and are actually “just a cluster of cells” in order to justify a myriad of things in the general orbit of abortion, since that’s the subject things always boil down to. The other side insists that embryos and fetuses are in fact fully fledged people and as such they’re under the same obligations and the same protections as a fully grown human. Both sides are equally stupid. With some luck, at some point in time we’ll all be able to agree that we’re okay with some forms of murder for convenience, because we obviously are - we’re dropping enough bombs on villages in the dust bowl for me to know that’s unequivocally true. Maybe in another thousand years we as a species will be able to shake hands and agree that an embryo, or a fetus, are definitely human life (because they are - they’re human and they’re alive, those are really the only two qualifiers) and it’s okay for them to die in certain circumstances. We should be more interested in what a “good” outcome in any given situation is, and preventing prospective parents with fertility issues from having naturally-born babies, which you’d think would be a conservative talking point, ain’t it, chief. That’s not to say that human life doesn’t deserve a degree of reverence - it absolutely does. There’s degrees to everything.

 

[Mythrandir]

The company would be held liable for X number of murders. Nobody's going to want to take that risk, so it's basically a roundabout method of ending IVF in the state altogether. Republicans once again demonstrating that they hate both freedom and science.

Why would this be the case? Is there liability for murder if a person on life support dies during a power outage? I can see the potential for a possible manslaughter charge, though not murder in either scenario. I don't see why it would be logical to conclude that the embryo scenario would be treated with greater prejudice than the life support scenario.

 

[Veho]

You forgot to quote the court's ruling in full. I think it provides some much needed context.

Whereby, God, God God, God, Almighty, God, Our Lord, God, God God. Amen.

Truly a valid basis for a court ruling and future legislation.

 

[KingVamp]

They are literally preventing people from bringing out healthy lives, with this nonsense.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

What's the gender of the embryos?

 

[pinbi7]

i thought embryos only referred to unfertilized eggs

 

[titan_tim]

Next step: Criminalizing contraception as murder!

Way to pave the way, Alabama!

 

[Jayro]

What happens when there's a power outage then

You've got everything critical on a battery backup, plus generators that automatically kick on when an outage occurs.

 

[Xzi]

There are two sides to this debate, and both of them are wrong. One side claims that human embryos are not in fact human beings in the embryonic stage and are actually “just a cluster of cells” in order to justify a myriad of things in the general orbit of abortion, since that’s the subject things always boil down to. The other side insists that embryos and fetuses are in fact fully fledged people and as such they’re under the same obligations and the same protections as a fully grown human.

I'm going to try not to come off as rude here, but two very different things happen when you freeze a fetus/baby versus when you freeze an embryo. One side is right because they acknowledge, understand, and utilize biological science to its fullest effect. The other side is still stuck inside Plato's Cave yelling at shadows, figuratively speaking. That side shouldn't be creating laws that bind those of us with a fully-developed prefrontal cortex.

Why would this be the case?

Mostly because it's Alabama we're talking about here, but also because a lot of logical conflicts arise when separation of church and state starts to break down.

 

[LeoTCK]

Back in Alabama, the guy with the tatooed forehead is gonna get us all killed!

(tell me if you get the reference)

 

[Mythrandir]

Mostly because it's Alabama we're talking about here, but also because a lot of logical conflicts arise when separation of church and state starts to break down.

Would you please elaborate on this within the context of the assertion that I question?

Assertion in question: Members of institutions will be prosecuted for murder in cases where embryo(s) die during unintentional power failures.

 

[Xzi]

Assertion in question: Members of institutions will be prosecuted for murder in cases where embryo(s) die during unintentional power failures.

The company is held liable for murder, not individuals. Which in a practical sense means they're just fined X amount of money. You could argue that human lives are worth more or less than the amount determined by the court, but regardless it's enough that IVF clinics will not be able to obtain insurance to cover the cost.

Embryos are not the same as non-viable fetuses, which are not the same as viable fetuses, which are not the same as babies capable of eating and breathing on their own. A failure to acknowledge the distinctions between these is a failure to acknowledge reality.

 

[Foxi4]

I'm going to try not to come off as rude here, but two very different things happen when you freeze a fetus/baby versus when you freeze an embryo. One side is right because they acknowledge, understand, and utilize biological science to its fullest effect. The other side is still stuck inside Plato's Cave yelling at shadows, figuratively speaking. That side shouldn't be creating laws that bind those of us with a fully-developed prefrontal cortex.

The fact that you can freeze an embryo doesn’t mean that it’s not human life. It’s absolutely human life, that’s just unequivocally true, and no scientist in their right mind would claim otherwise. It’s not sentient life since it has no brain in that stage of development. We can have a nuanced discussion about personhood here, you’ll hear varied opinions on the subject - that’s in the realm of philosophy, not biology. An unimplanted embryo cannot develop further into a fully-fledged adult because it requires a human host - a mother. As such, you’re not really depriving it of anything. In fact, fertilised eggs get discarded through menstruation all the time if the timing’s not quite right, and we don’t call that a miscarriage. I don’t think mischaracterising science and biology bolsters your point - it diminishes it greatly. There is nothing “unscientific” in anything I’ve said.

 

[Xzi]

The fact that you can freeze an embryo doesn’t mean that it’s not human life. It’s absolutely human life, that’s just unequivocally true, and no scientist in their right mind would claim otherwise. It’s not sentient life since it has no brain in that stage of development.

Cellular life is not the same as human life by any definition. Not even the Bible equates the two, despite the fact that it comes from an era with no established knowledge of microbiology.

We've already determined that modern nutjobs don't bother reading the texts they reference which supposedly justify their authoritarian beliefs, otherwise they would've taken note of the DIY how-to guide on abortion present in the Old Testament.

Alabama's ruling is based wholly on ignorance of both science and Christianity. It's double dumb.