PS1/2 Do modern burners/CD's make lower quality PS1 backups?

[SylverReZ]

I don't have those CMC Pro discs. It's not easy to buy those in The Netherlands. Most discs in the shops here are cheap brands.

He tested it in a SCPH-9xxx and a PS One which seem to have better reading capabilities.

My SCPH-102 is also a PS One in which the Ritek disc works fine. But in the older SCPH-5552 it stutters.

They sell them here for £7 for a set of ten CD-Rs.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333992540000

 

[Fien]

They sell them here for £7 for a set of ten CD-Rs.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333992540000

These are very expensive for only testing.

The £7,- is only the CD's. To let it ship to The Netherlands it will cost £9,33 shipping and £5,- taxes. And if it's delivered by PostNL they will charge me a additional €7,- when it's at the Dutch customs.

It will cost €25,- or more for only 10 discs

 

[SylverReZ]

These are very expensive for only testing.

The £7,- is only the CD's. To let it ship to The Netherlands it will cost £9,33 shipping and £5,- taxes. And if it's delivered by PostNL they will charge me a additional €7,- when it's at the Dutch customs.

It will cost €25,- or more for only 10 discs

Oh damn. Well I'm sure some local supplier might have them. €25 is the same as buying a spindle of 50 CD-Rs.

 

[alexfree]

https://duc.avid.com/archive/index.php/t-3884.html another good citation I’ll add to the article I think.

 

[alexfree]

Found this on C1/C2 error testing for Plextor PX-708A and Taiyo Yuden discs, further confirming the results: https://www.cdrinfo.com/d7/content/plextor-px-708a

 

[Fien]

Some time ago I got two burners from a thrift store (they are rare, most stores just throw away computer parts), they let me toke them for €1,- each because nobody bought them for a long time.

It was a Pioneer DVR-MCC and a Acer CDRW 6x4x32.

The Acer was unfortunately dead, the laser pickup didn't move

But the Pioneer DVR-MCC seems to be a good one I upgraded the firmware to 1.14 and burned multiple PS1 games with it which all play without any stuttering on the PS1 models I have It supports 4x as the lowest CD burning speed which I used.

This Pioneer DVR-MCC looks like a OEM drive sold in Germany and found in some old Medion desktops.


Edit: maybe this DVR-MCC burner is even a bit better then the ND-3550A. The game "Driver" is quite hard to burn (intro FMV is high bitrate of it's location on the disc) if meant to be played on the SCPH-5552. The intro FMV stutters even on CMC media burned with the ND-3550A, but this DVR-MCC did it great.

 

[ShaunD]

First off great thread. I'm getting back into burning PS1 discs again. I've been there since the early days in the 90's burning them. The last drive I remember using was an Lite On CD drive. Never had a problem burning them back then...

Back in the now, I started burning the games with a Pioneer BDR-209DBK (Bluray Drive). Surprisingly it can burn cd discs at x4 speed. I used Taiyo Yuden JVC CMC PRO discs. I've tested them at low and high speeds and found the slowest x4 to work the best. They play just fine with no FMV jumps, unfortunately its on boot where I find the problem. So times they will boot and sometimes they won't load (Sometimes a red screen and others stuck on the black screen logo screen). I burnt with Imgburn and 120%. Iv'e tested it on multi consoles including a couple of Psone's with great lasers.

I've read The Ultimate Guide To PSX CD-Rs and it mentions that the EMF signal strength is too weak with modern drives. I take it that's why i'm having this problem with my burnt discs.

Anyway I was looking into getting another cd drive (ide old one). I see there is quite a feew to choose from. What would be the best to get?

Thanks alot

 

[Fien]

Burned discs that not always boot, I have a couple of newer burners that can make them too

For me the NEC ND-3550A works the best, but I use it with cheap media. You probably have more choice because you're using good media.

Multiple here says the Plextor PX-708A is the best one. However, probably it's also the most expensive one to get.

I think which one to get depends on which one you can find (second-hand) for a price you want to pay.

 

[ShaunD]

Burned discs that not always boot, I have a couple of newer burners that can make them too

For me the NEC ND-3550A works the best, but I use it with cheap media. You probably have more choice because you're using good media.

Multiple here says the Plextor PX-708A is the best one. However, probably it's also the most expensive one to get.

I think which one to get depends on which one you can find (second-hand) for a price you want to pay.

Thanks for the info, Fien. It's much appreciated. I used old media in my Psones and they always work great on boot (no crashes, red screen) so I'm thinking it's got to be down to modern drives with the EMF signal strength, I take. I'm going to try and find out my old CD drives first, failing that, I'll try and track down the said drives you mention. Cheers

 

[SylverReZ]

@alexfree https://consolemods.org/wiki/User:Derf/CD_Burning_Shenanigans

You'll be interested.

 

[Fien]

Yesterday I was in a video game museum in Germany and it had a Sega Saturn with a spindle of burned CD-R games which you could play with The burned CD-R's where cheap Medion CD's and they played fine including the FMV's (I played Road Rash).

Is the CD drive from a Sega Saturn better then a PS1 drive or do they burned the cheap CD's with a good burner?

 

[alexfree]

Yesterday I was in a video game museum in Germany and it had a Sega Saturn with a spindle of burned CD-R games which you could play with The burned CD-R's where cheap Medion CD's and they played fine including the FMV's (I played Road Rash).

Is the CD drive from a Sega Saturn better then a PS1 drive or do they burned the cheap CD's with a good burner?

Probably one of the reasons Saturn launched for $399 and PSX launched for $299 in US. I have never confirmed it but the Saturn drive is really good from what I’ve heard

 

[ShaunD]

Probably one of the reasons Saturn launched for $399 and PSX launched for $299 in US. I have never confirmed it but the Saturn drive is really good from what I’ve heard

Probably one of the reasons Saturn launched for $399 and PSX launched for $299 in US. I have never confirmed it but the Saturn drive is really good from what I’ve heard

Yes, Alex. I think you are right. It does seem better at reading discs on that Saturn compared to the PSX.

 

[Fien]

It seems like the FMV on the game "Driver" is more difficult to burn stutter-free (on cheap media) for the SCPH-5552. Maybe it's a higher bitrate or it's the location on the disc. Even with the ND-3550A and CMC CD-R it stutters slightly. But with the Pioneer DVR-MCC it makes a good one from the CMC disc.

A NEC-Optiarc AD-7173A did a good one of this game on a Sony CD-R (with Sony mediacode), but I think those Sony discs are old and from a time when CD-R's has a better quality. They are rated 48x instead of 52x, making me think they are very old.

I also found a NEC ND-3530A and after a couple of discs I have the feeling it's a bad one. Not even near a ND-3550A while the model number is similar.

-----

Also, I just found some CD-R's that seems to be not compatible with the SCPH-5552. They are branded "Office Depot" and has a "Moser Baer" mediacode.

Even burned with a ND-3550A (8x and 24x) or DVR-MCC (4x) those discs stutter heavily on the SCPH-5552. If burned with the iHAS124 E (16x) it doesn't even boot on the SCPH-5552. They play fine on SCPH-7502 and up, but that's not good enough. Maybe Moser Baer discs are even more bad then CMC and Ritek

ATIP from those discs:

ATIP info from disk:
  Indicated writing power: 5
  Is not unrestricted
  Is not erasable
  Disk sub type: Medium Type B, low Beta category (B-) (4)
  ATIP start of lead in:  -12369 (97:17/06)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359849 (79:59/74)
Disk type:    Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 69
Manufacturer: Moser Baer India Limited

I still have 70pcs of these left

 

[alexfree]

It seems like the FMV on the game "Driver" is more difficult to burn stutter-free (on cheap media) for the SCPH-5552. Maybe it's a higher bitrate or it's the location on the disc. Even with the ND-3550A and CMC CD-R it stutters slightly. But with the Pioneer DVR-MCC it makes a good one from the CMC disc.

A NEC-Optiarc AD-7173A did a good one of this game on a Sony CD-R (with Sony mediacode), but I think those Sony discs are old and from a time when CD-R's has a better quality. They are rated 48x instead of 52x, making me think they are very old.

I also found a NEC ND-3530A and after a couple of discs I have the feeling it's a bad one. Not even near a ND-3550A while the model number is similar.

-----

Also, I just found some CD-R's that seems to be not compatible with the SCPH-5552. They are branded "Office Depot" and has a "Moser Baer" mediacode.

Even burned with a ND-3550A (8x and 24x) or DVR-MCC (4x) those discs stutter heavily on the SCPH-5552. If burned with the iHAS124 E (16x) it doesn't even boot on the SCPH-5552. They play fine on SCPH-7502 and up, but that's not good enough. Maybe Moser Baer discs are even more bad then CMC and Ritek

ATIP from those discs:

ATIP info from disk:
  Indicated writing power: 5
  Is not unrestricted
  Is not erasable
  Disk sub type: Medium Type B, low Beta category (B-) (4)
  ATIP start of lead in:  -12369 (97:17/06)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359849 (79:59/74)
Disk type:    Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 69
Manufacturer: Moser Baer India Limited

I still have 70pcs of these left

Looks like the disc is almost entirely made up of FMV data. FMV data spans from LBA 63,280 to well past 304,939,.. The earlier the LBA, the faster physically the drive spins the disc to reach 2x speed, the more likely it hits disc read issues with cheap media? That first FMV is also the biggest (from a glance).