Hardware A question about the main processor of the DSi

[Nikokaro]

I am intrigued by the fact that this console has a main processor that is twice as fast as the previous DS, and with 4 times the RAM of the latter.
One would expect the games specifically for this console to be better and superior graphically than the predecessor.

Instead as specific games for it we find only the games of the dsiware series (downloadable) that are mostly small and mediocre puzzle games, not only not at all better than those for DS, but also worse, simpler and more frugal, which do not exploit at all the potential of the DSi.
If I'm not mistaken, specific cartridges for DSi have been released but they don't have anything special and they also work on DS.

How come? Someone can give me his opinion about it? Why improve the performance of the main processor if then its games are far inferior to the great titles for DS (for example, a whole series of unforgettable and unique RPG games)? So what's the point of having improved the console if its games don't highlight its virtues, not even one?
Mention at least one great DSi-specific title, if you can...

 

[Coto]

I am intrigued by the fact that this console has a main processor that is twice as fast as the previous DS, and with 4 times the RAM of the latter.
One would expect the games specifically for this console to be better and superior graphically than the predecessor.

Instead as specific games for it we find only the games of the dsiware series (downloadable) that are mostly small and mediocre puzzle games, not only not at all better than those for DS, but also worse, simpler and more frugal, which do not exploit at all the potential of the DSi.
If I'm not mistaken, specific cartridges for DSi have been released but they don't have anything special and they also work on DS.

How come? Someone can give me his opinion about it? Why improve the performance of the main processor if then its games are far inferior to the great titles for DS (for example, a whole series of unforgettable and unique RPG games)? So what's the point of having improved the console if its games don't highlight its virtues, not even one?
Mention at least one great DSi-specific title, if you can...

The ARM processor is good enough for DSP-like operations, like sound or video, provided it's written in assembly code or tightly good written interrupt code. But, on the NTR/TWL, the Main 4MB / 16MB RAM is too slow to provide proper 3D matrix calculation. So in a way, Nintendo designed the GX hardware (the 3D accelerator inside the NTR/TWL units) very similar to the SuperFX, that is, a co processor to handle specific matrix operation and texture commands (and other 3D features) by at most a few hundreds of ARM9 cycles (out of 66 millions of cycles, as you can imagine it's very fast).

The DSi / TWL can be seen at least from two POVs:

From the developer POV:
Same 3D features, faster CPU and added RAM, and an internal memory, replacing the original NTR OS but it came out too late . (Literally in the beggining of 2009). So it felt pretty "meh" since you could do the same (at the time) using a flashcard.

From the research POV:
It was a DS with added cameras, extended RAM, SD slot, standard WIFI chipset, AES crypto hardware, Codec + DSP (dedicated co processor and controller for real time custom sound chipset, while also retaining the older ARM7 sound hardware, touchscreen, etc). For this to happen they had to implement I2C and SDIO bus protocols on the DS hardware.... or to put simply, the 3DS predecesor.


Also the DSi enhanced games DO use a TWL SDK (since they use the TWL specific hardware mid-game), where also these games provide a NTR SDK embedded in their games. So DSi enhanced games like Pokémon White/Black have 4 separate ARM core payloads (ARM7/ARM9/ARM7i/ARM9i) as opposed to a standard DS game where they'd include 2 payloads (ARM7/ARM9) and overlays.


In my opinion, the TWL SDK should've been used better, sort of re-releasing DSi specific DS games (sort of Mario Kart DSi) online. That was a great missed oportunity from Nintendo. But since the 3DS came out two years later, 2011, most of the existing technology was ported there and there'd be little to no use in wasting $$$ and resources in the older platform.

 

[Tarmfot]

The ARM processor is good enough for DSP-like operations, like sound or video, provided it's written in assembly code or tightly good written interrupt code. But, on the NTR/TWL, the Main 4MB / 16MB RAM is too slow to provide proper 3D matrix calculation. So in a way, Nintendo designed the GX hardware (the 3D accelerator inside the NTR/TWL units) very similar to the SuperFX, that is, a co processor to handle specific matrix operation and texture commands (and other 3D features) by at most a few hundreds of ARM9 cycles (out of 66 millions of cycles, as you can imagine it's very fast).

The DSi / TWL can be seen at least from two POVs:

From the developer POV:
Same 3D features, faster CPU and added RAM, and an internal memory, replacing the original NTR OS but it came out too late . (Literally in the beggining of 2009). So it felt pretty "meh" since you could do the same (at the time) using a flashcard.

From the research POV:
It was a DS with added cameras, extended RAM, SD slot, standard WIFI chipset, AES crypto hardware, Codec + DSP (dedicated co processor and controller for real time custom sound chipset, while also retaining the older ARM7 sound hardware, touchscreen, etc). For this to happen they had to implement I2C and SDIO bus protocols on the DS hardware.... or to put simply, the 3DS predecesor.


Also the DSi enhanced games DO use a TWL SDK (since they use the TWL specific hardware mid-game), where also these games provide a NTR SDK embedded in their games. So DSi enhanced games like Pokémon White/Black have 4 separate ARM core payloads (ARM7/ARM9/ARM7i/ARM9i) as opposed to a standard DS game where they'd include 2 payloads (ARM7/ARM9) and overlays.


In my opinion, the TWL SDK should've been used better, sort of re-releasing DSi specific DS games (sort of Mario Kart DSi) online. That was a great missed oportunity from Nintendo. But since the 3DS came out two years later, 2011, most of the existing technology was ported there and there'd be little to no use in wasting $$$ and resources in the older platform.

The 2048 polygons per frame limit still exists in dsi then.

 

[wavemotion]

From the perspective of homebrew emulators, the DSi is a godsend. The 2x CPU, specifically, is a massive help when it comes to emulation. Of the 6 emulators I've worked on (with ColecoDS itself supporting multiple types of CPUs and sound chips) - the faster DSi renders everything at full speed with the only exception of ARM-Assisted Atari 2600 games (which do not run).

On the DS-LITE/PHAT, just about every trick in the book is required to make the games run at or near full speed...

The extra RAM is nice but I never use it - mostly because I need my homebrew to work across all models. I've already got the smallest target audience imaginable... hate to cut that in half by only supporting the "newer" DSi (and, I suspect, Nin-do probably was of the same mind... no sense in excluding more than half your potential buyers so at best they "enhanced" a few commercial games with the faster processor / memory).

 

[Coto]

The 2048 polygons per frame limit still exists in dsi then.

TBH it's a misconception to see so little polygon count as something "bad", it should be seen as "optimized", since you can clip the entire rendering scene, to mere FOV (Field Of View), apply depth of field using cuboid tests implemented in GX hardware (to actually draw polygons inside the cuboid coordinates and discard anything outside), lower the polygon count and you'd still get a fully 3D engine working on the NTR/TWL hardware.

edit: also instead of a z buffer (as in the N64), now a depth test is performed per polygon.

 

[BETA215]

'So what's the point of having improved the console if its games don't highlight its virtues...?' Are you talking about the DSi, about the New 3DS, about the 64DD? I think that's the issue.