Hacking Any way to force wii to display 720p?

[LaoED]

Don't bother with 720p display TC, the output would look terrible. Most Wii games are 480p native. Teh sharpness of jaggies are not worth it.

 

[sorgelig]

CPU and video of Wii are too weak to handle 720p.
For Wii games, higher resolution won't give anything. They coded that way so only their expected resolutions will work. If somebody thinks, that higher resolution is possible just like in Dolphin emulator on PC then he is wrong. Higher resolution on Dolphin possible *ONLY* because of emulation and process 3D scene outside of emulated environment on faster 3D accelerator and with additional buffers. It's impossible to accomplish it on Wii. *period*

720p won't bring anything for WiiMC as well due to again weak CPU.

Even if 720p would be possible to make through hack (which is definitely impossible) it would't bring anything meaningful.

I'm fairly sure GTA4 on PS3 rendered at 480p Lol. i may be wrong though. =/ would need to look into it.

if you wanna flame what is the best XBOX360 vs PS3, then i won't help you here.

if you really curious about game resolutions then look here:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

 

[robo989]

From what I know, the only thing actually holding it back is the VRAM. It takes something like 7 megs of VRAM to buffer HD images at 720p, while the Wii is running somewhere between 1.5 and 3 megs.

Nonsense.

The Wii has more than enough video memory to display at 720p. It sounds to me like you're getting mixed up with the buffer needed for "free" Antialiasing on the Xbox 360 at it's maximum resolution. the Wii has wayyyyy more than 1.3-3mb of video memory lol

From what I know, the only thing actually holding it back is the VRAM. It takes something like 7 megs of VRAM to buffer HD images at 720p, while the Wii is running somewhere between 1.5 and 3 megs.
Considering that if the Wii could output 720p, then it'd be the first HD console (as 360 and PS3 go between 576 and 720)


PS3\Xbox 360 can both render AND\OR upscale to 1080p




Posts merged

From what I know, the only thing actually holding it back is the VRAM. It takes something like 7 megs of VRAM to buffer HD images at 720p, while the Wii is running somewhere between 1.5 and 3 megs.
Considering that if the Wii could output 720p, then it'd be the first HD console (as 360 and PS3 go between 576 and 720)


the PS3 and 360 can output 1080P, they are HD consoles the wii isnt

Output? Yes. Render? Far from it.


Go do some research smartypants. Games vary from 540p-1080p - RENDERED resolution on the Xbox 360. Most games on the PS3 are rendered at a lower resolution than the Xbox 360, except exclusives which generally look better.

Games on 360 at a minimum render at 720p(a restriction set by Microsoft) with a few exceptions. (MW2 rendered at 600p, Gears of War was, if I'm not mistaken rendered out at full 1080p). As far as I know *everything* is 720p on the PS3. The Wii, however, hardware wise could potentially output at 720p, but it's GPU is far too weak to render at 720p.

This restriction was relaxed about 1000 years ago.

You're wrong about the PS3. Multiplatform games on the PS3 are generally rendered at a slightly lower resolution than the Xbox 360 version. People were brainwashed by sony hype about the PS3 only outputting at 720p\1080p. Most games that people call "1080p" or "720p" on the PS3 are actually not at all technically, the PS3 has an atrocious scaling chip that can only scale certain resolutions to it's output resolution. So for 1080p output you have to have strange rendered resolution like 1024x1080...and so on. The Xbox 360 doesn't have this limitation and can pretty much scale any resolution to 720p\1080p without a performance hit. This is why when you play some games on a PS3 certain output resolutions aren't supported. This further pushes the myth that the PS3 is actually rendering at your selected resolution.



Posts merged

QUOTE(davidsl_128 @ Dec 2 2010, 04:52 PM)

What's the difference between render and output? I don't get it

Render is when the geometry of a scene has it's textures and maps processed to make an image. Turning calculations into an image.

The output resolution can be different by using the GPU itself or a seperate chip to change the output resolution. It doesn't actually improve the image techbically but a good chip can perform tricks to smooth out jaggies etc. A bit like an expensive Plasma\LCD brand will have a better image than a pants one often due to the performance of the scaling chip. It can't work miracles but it can definately help.


QUOTE(Knyaz Vladimir @ Dec 2 2010, 04:58 PM)

QUOTE(davidsl_128 @ Dec 2 2010, 09:52 AM)

What's the difference between render and output? I don't get it

Render means that the game creates an image at 720p. Output means the quality of the image seen on your screen. The Wii renders a few games at near-720p quality, but it can only output at 576i, having lower quality than what the Wii makes.

Nonsense, read above.

QUOTE(Jacobeian @ Dec 2 2010, 05:29 PM)

Actually, there are no proof the Wii video hardware can output 720p.
On the contrary, since it's a custom video chip, it's very likely they cutted-off features for saving money. What's the point of having hardware supporting something but no way to use it in software ?

It seems very unlikely since 720p does not only require more GPU memory but also the Video Encoder working at a faster clock.

Faster clock!? You're referring to RAMDACs aren't you which has nothing to do with the processing power of the Wii. Outputting 720p (1280x720) has been possible on even basic video cards from 13-15 years in terms of the RAMDAC being able to support this resolution at an acceptable refresh rate.


Hope this has cleared some misinformation up people, who would have thought so many people could be so wrong!?

 

[PPSainity]

From what I know, the only thing actually holding it back is the VRAM. It takes something like 7 megs of VRAM to buffer HD images at 720p, while the Wii is running somewhere between 1.5 and 3 megs.

Nonsense.

The Wii has more than enough video memory to display at 720p. It sounds to me like you're getting mixed up with the buffer needed for "free" Antialiasing on the Xbox 360 at it's maximum resolution. the Wii has wayyyyy more than 1.3-3mb of video memory lol.....

Well, taking a superficial look at this, it does seem you are wrong here. According to WiiBrew the Wii's GPU has only 3MBs of embedded ram. Hauling out the oldschool 2D equations we get:
PixelBitDepth x HorizontalResolution x VerticalResolution = VideoRamBufferSize
32 x 1280 x 720 = 29491200 bits = 3.6MBs
So, unless the above assumption of a video buffer of 3MBs is wrong well, the Wii falls short of 720p by at least 600KBs. But I do agree that Nintendo probably used a standard RAMDAC part that could output up to the component max of 1080i, but with nothing to feed it, well, it's a no go.

EDIT: Forget the part about the RAMDAC too, apparently Nintendo used a proprietary design in order to further cut costs rather than using a pre-existing bulk part. So, more than likely, the AVE-RVL's silicon wasn't even designed to handle 720p as well. Found this out after my initial superficial look into the subject. I wonder how much money that saved them....lol

-[]D

 

[Jacobeian]

From what I know, the only thing actually holding it back is the VRAM. It takes something like 7 megs of VRAM to buffer HD images at 720p, while the Wii is running somewhere between 1.5 and 3 megs.

Nonsense.

The Wii has more than enough video memory to display at 720p. It sounds to me like you're getting mixed up with the buffer needed for "free" Antialiasing on the Xbox 360 at it's maximum resolution. the Wii has wayyyyy more than 1.3-3mb of video memory lol


he refers to the GPU internal memory, also called EFB (embedded frame buffer). It is limited for rendering 640*528 pixels. maybe you can store larger scenes in main memory by rendering multiple scenes but I'mnot sure it's used or even possible. That's said, SDK documentation about the Video Interface clearly says that the video range is limited to 720x480 (720x574 for PAL).

QUOTE(Jacobeian @ Dec 2 2010, 05:29 PM)

Actually, there are no proof the Wii video hardware can output 720p.
On the contrary, since it's a custom video chip, it's very likely they cutted-off features for saving money. What's the point of having hardware supporting something but no way to use it in software ?

It seems very unlikely since 720p does not only require more GPU memory but also the Video Encoder working at a faster clock.

Faster clock!? You're referring to RAMDACs aren't you which has nothing to do with the processing power of the Wii. Outputting 720p (1280x720) has been possible on even basic video cards from 13-15 years in terms of the RAMDAC being able to support this resolution at an acceptable refresh rate.


Hope this has cleared some misinformation up people, who would have thought so many people could be so wrong!?

No, I'm referring to the video clock, the clock used by the Video Encoder to output pixels/lines. It is 27 Mhz in interlaced mode, 54 Mhz in progressive mode (480P). See here. That's for GC but the same register exists on Wii and the clock is clearly derived from the main clock (729/27 = 486/18 = 27 Mhz). The clock is twice faster in 480p because it needs to output 480 lines each 1/60s, as opposed to interlaced modes where it's 480 lines at 1/30s. And that's for only 720 pixels per line (which required pixel rate is 13.5 Mhz, as defined by REC. 601, exactly the video clock divided by 2 !)... That's why I said that in order to support 1280x720p, you would need an even higher video clock, which is very unlikely supported by the video hardware and clock generators

 

[Bladexdsl]

Only way to output 720p would be to buy a converter box that converts 480i/p into 720p.

they don't work it still displays in 480p

 

[OrGoN3]

Only way to output 720p would be to buy a converter box that converts 480i/p into 720p.

they don't work it still displays in 480p

There is no way to make the Wii output 720p. There are 2 ways to play Wii games in "720p" (quotes are on purpose).

1. Get an upscaler top box. Probably will be a bit pricey. It will definitely look like sh*t since the games are still being rendered at 640x480, the display is just being upscaled to 1280x720 (this is why I put quotes around 720p above). I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS

2. Use the GCN/Wii emulator Dolphin an a VERY powerful computer, and set the render options to 1280x720. Looks beautiful too. Or so I've heard......::shifty-eyes::

 

[Bladexdsl]

I agree i've used several upscaler devices and they dont work all they do is make the images a slight big sharper and more vibrant but my tv still says it's in 480p. all you'll do is waste your $ on these.

as for dolphin hmmm which should i use play wii on a 20" moniter which may look a little bit better OR my 65" neopdp plasma at 480p?

 

[Bladeforce]

Memory is the only thing limiting the Wii to 480p the custom ATI Hollywood graphics (Approx ATI Radeon x1450) are quite capable of producing a display of 720p but unable to render anything at this level due to memory limitations. The CPU is more than capable as is the motherboard.

 

[Bladeforce]

In response to this quote

"You're wrong about the PS3. Multiplatform games on the PS3 are generally rendered at a slightly lower resolution than the Xbox 360 version. People were brainwashed by sony hype about the PS3 only outputting at 720p\1080p. Most games that people call "1080p" or "720p" on the PS3 are actually not at all technically, the PS3 has an atrocious scaling chip that can only scale certain resolutions to it's output resolution. So for 1080p output you have to have strange rendered resolution like 1024x1080...and so on. The Xbox 360 doesn't have this limitation and can pretty much scale any resolution to 720p\1080p without a performance hit. This is why when you play some games on a PS3 certain output resolutions aren't supported. This further pushes the myth that the PS3 is actually rendering at your selected resolution."

I also find it ironic that Sony advertising said the PS3 games were all singing in the sound department too, when actually, as seen since the PS3 was cracked, most games are just a fancy lossy mp3 not lossless pure audio. Must suck to have succumbed to the Sony hype and realize now most games aren't anywhere near their stated comments.

 

[Knyaz Vladimir]

Does this even matter anymore? It can't display 720p without Dolphin, end of story.