Hacking Is M3i Zero the best flashcart ever?

[bach3609]

hmmm... based on that, its possible, maybe But you can't be too sure.

 

[Dark-Sider]

Hi,

just some thoughts about "upgrading" the m3i zero to be DSi-Mode compatible:

First there are economic aspects for the release groups. Even if your cart might be upgradeable, you just could say it isn't and sell new carts. The Flash cart market is probably not the biggest market in the world but it's a nice niche market. The shops, the groups and the fabs (who make the carts) want their $-slice ;-). If you think all groups are selfless hackers, go and take a look at the TV-Smartcard scene. You can buy perfectly upgradeable haxxor-smartcards, but once in while you have to buy a new one sometimes even if the pay-tv provider didn't issue new cards.

Second there are technical aspects. I'm really not that deep into the homebrew and cart-console hacking scene, but I've got a degree in computer science - so basically I know my stuff. On the one side you have your console (DSi) and on the other hand you've got your memory-device aka flash-cart. When you turn on your DSi it reads your flash-cart (or whatever is in your slot1). Depending on what it reads it decides whether DSi mode will be enabled or not (in other words it finds some certificates or stuff that allow the use of DSi-mode-features). So if there is a piece of home-brew software that brings all the certificates and stuff to run in DSi Mode it would be sufficient for the flash-cart to hand the home-brew.rom to the DSi. This can always be done by a firmware upgrade (if needed). If Nintendo adds some RSA-processing-chip to their DSi-"only" carts, it could be difficult for the flash cart to emulate (calculate) the RSA-challenge and response codes in time. That would be similiar to usb or lpt dongles on your computer. If your flash cart is not powerful to do fast rsa-calculations then there is no way a software upgrade would make your cart DSi-mode compatible.

All this is based about my general knowledge of cryptò-systems and rom-carts. If someone has more information about the DSi-mode I'd happy to read some stuff.
- Are there any real Nintendo carts out, that use DSi-features? Whate distinguishes those carts from normal carts (if you open them and take a look at the hardware).
- In order to access the DSi-Mode from SD-cards or the internal memory you obiously need to use Nintendo signed software. If you inject your own code thru a savegame your code might run in DSi mode, even it might be able to install a homebrew channel, that allows to easy boot non signed software. Is there any more information about this?

bye
Darky

 

[bach3609]

Hi,

just some thoughts about "upgrading" the m3i zero to be DSi-Mode compatible:

First there are economic aspects for the release groups. Even if your cart might be upgradeable, you just could say it isn't and sell new carts. The Flash cart market is probably not the biggest market in the world but it's a nice niche market. The shops, the groups and the fabs (who make the carts) want their $-slice ;-). If you think all groups are selfless hackers, go and take a look at the TV-Smartcard scene. You can buy perfectly upgradeable haxxor-smartcards, but once in while you have to buy a new one sometimes even if the pay-tv provider didn't issue new cards.

Second there are technical aspects. I'm really not that deep into the homebrew and cart-console hacking scene, but I've got a degree in computer science - so basically I know my stuff. On the one side you have your console (DSi) and on the other hand you've got your memory-device aka flash-cart. When you turn on your DSi it reads your flash-cart (or whatever is in your slot1). Depending on what it reads it decides whether DSi mode will be enabled or not (in other words it finds some certificates or stuff that allow the use of DSi-mode-features). So if there is a piece of home-brew software that brings all the certificates and stuff to run in DSi Mode it would be sufficient for the flash-cart to hand the home-brew.rom to the DSi. This can always be done by a firmware upgrade (if needed). If Nintendo adds some RSA-processing-chip to their DSi-"only" carts, it could be difficult for the flash cart to emulate (calculate) the RSA-challenge and response codes in time. That would be similiar to usb or lpt dongles on your computer. If your flash cart is not powerful to do fast rsa-calculations then there is no way a software upgrade would make your cart DSi-mode compatible.

All this is based about my general knowledge of cryptò-systems and rom-carts. If someone has more information about the DSi-mode I'd happy to read some stuff.
- Are there any real Nintendo carts out, that use DSi-features? Whate distinguishes those carts from normal carts (if you open them and take a look at the hardware).
- In order to access the DSi-Mode from SD-cards or the internal memory you obiously need to use Nintendo signed software. If you inject your own code thru a savegame your code might run in DSi mode, even it might be able to install a homebrew channel, that allows to easy boot non signed software. Is there any more information about this?

bye
Darky

This

 

[Placeholder]

hmmm... based on that, its possible, maybe But you can't be too sure.

I found this video of the same hack, created by a different person named wintermute. You see no hardware changes in this what so ever.



So it seems likely that we can enter DSi mode with no hardware changes.

I fully agree with Dark-Sider too. Flashcart manufacturers will probably try to cheat us by making us pay for new flashcarts we don't need.

 

[bach3609]

hmm interesting.... but yea hopefully the existing flashcards(dsi ones) will put this into use.

 

[sweenish]

STOP FORGETTING THAT THE M3 i ZERO IS FULLY UPGRADEABLE!!!

seriously, it's only sheer stupidity that spawns comments like this. when the dsi is hacked, the m3 i zero and supercard will more than likely be updated to take advantage of said hack.

stop spreading idiotic falsities, and take two minutes to be sure you know what you're talking about.
Seems like you don't know anything about hardware and software. If you were to use the new dsi hack, you would need a different hardware chip. everytime you flash the m3i zero with the F_Core.dat file does not solder any new chip parts into the card. Therefore you need another card that will be DSI mode compatible. The flashing, can however rewrite the card so that the dsi firmware updates dont affect it, but it cant just solder in new chips to the card. Ever wonder why in the team twiizers hack video there was a set of wires and a pcb chip hanging out the back of the game cartridge inside the dsi? Yea thats why.........

QUOTE(sweenish @ Jul 23 2009, 06:31 PM) stop spreading idiotic falsities

Ummmmm, aren't you the one spreading idiotic falsities?

did you not read that article? those extra wires and pcbs were not part of the hack. they were tracers, and for debugging.

and since when do you need new hardware? nobody has said anything about that. as long as the hardware and f_core.dat can get the m3 i zero recognized by the ds, the hack is all software as soon as the dsi tries to boot it up.

the hardware is only necessary for the dsi to have something to interface with. when it tries to boot it up, the software takes over. which is why a completely update-able card will be able to take advantage of any dsi hack. does a blank m3 zero register as anything when you put it in? no. it's not until you put the loader onto it. and the hardware simply sends its data from there. and since a dsi is NOTHING more than better spec-ed, with some cameras, and a new firmware, the idea that new hardware is needed is utterly retarded.

so let's not just assume that because i yell at an idiot that i don't know what i'm talking about. you're not putting mod-chips into your hardware, it's a soft mod, through and through. the hardware is merely the cartridge interface, and the dsi isn't using different cartridges.

EDIT: posted before seeing the post by Dark-Sider.

i'm wondering about the rsa protection, as that was something i did not read up on much, myself. i had just assumed that it would be easily bypassable with a cheat code fix, same with all other copy protections. if not, the card can, like you said, try and bypass it manually, or there would be a database that gets integrated into the firmware, or you patch your games.

i guess we'll just have to see once a protected game is released. but again, it's something that i don't think anyone needs extra hardware for.

and since the m3 i zero is advertised as fully upgradable, that consumer/business practice paragraph doesn't necessarily apply. they'd be stupid to not release the upgrade for the customers who bought the card BECAUSE of its upgrade-ability.

 

[RalphUp]

hmmm... based on that, its possible, maybe But you can't be too sure.

I found this video of the same hack, created by a different person named wintermute. You see no hardware changes in this what so ever.



So it seems likely that we can enter DSi mode with no hardware changes.

I fully agree with Dark-Sider too. Flashcart manufacturers will probably try to cheat us by making us pay for new flashcarts we don't need.

Is it just me or does this video actually NOT show homebrew running!?!?! All I see is two orange screens.
But just to clear up the reason why I am replying is that even if this Video is the same as the TeamTweaser hack that is on the HackMii site, has no one actually noticed that the game IS a DSi game - UBISOFT's "Classic Word Game" with as stated on the BOX "Additional Nintendo DSi features"

So yeah it is a DS game (Compatible with normal DS's) but has DSi mode, and if you haven’t noticed this doesn’t boot on the M3i Zero, nor on any other cart, unless it is patched, and THEN it only runs in DS mode ...SO what I am saying is none of the current carts maybe able to run DSi mode, even for homebrew!!!
We will have to see.
I am not bothered for DSi games as there is nothing there of interest yet. But the extra CPU power, Memory and direct access to the SD Card in homebrew is the reason I have a DSi.

A few things to remember:

1. DSi uses region locking for DSi-specific software
2. There is no freely available hack to unlock the DSi for pirate carts OR homebrew
3. The upgradable carts may or may not allow for DSi mode in the future
4. Once the DSi is hacked then we will get to know the answers to the above!

Last one to remember is that the original DS carts were actually GBA Slot 2 carts booting through a PASS-ME cart.

So we may or may not need a new cart in the future, only time will tell, all I know is that when the time comes I will buy the necessary cart / hardware to run homebrew when it’s available, or download the M3i Zero upgrade, which ever comes first.

Looking forward to some excelent DSi Homebrew in the future!

 

[Placeholder]

Ralph, read the post above yours. He seems to know what he's talking about.

 

[RalphUp]

Placeholder I did read the above post

" the idea that new hardware is needed is utterly retarded."

So you know FOR DEFINATE THAT THERE IS NO EXTRA HARDWARE REQUIRED TO ACCESS DSi MODE?

proof please! as I stated the HACK to boot the Team Tweaser demo was done using a DSi GAME CART!

 

[Placeholder]

The reason existing cards cannot boot it is because they are already in DS mode. You can't boot .DSi when in DS mode. It would probably work if the flashcart was already in DSi mode, though.

The hack TeamTwiizer used is a save-game hack. It is using the already DSi mode cart to execute it's own code. It's probably merely a stepping stone to find out how to get into DSi mode.

I don't know much about the DSi or flashcarts, so I'd ask sweenish to back up my statements.

 

[Dark-Sider]

Hello,

What are game-cartridges exactly - or what makes them special (compared to SD-Cards, CD-Roms and Hard-Drives)? Game Cartridiges usually have super fast Read-Only Memory (therefore also called ROM). Of curse current SD-Cards are a lot faster then ATARI ST Cartridges, but current ROMs are quite fast. Basically a cartdridge is a memory extension for your console, comparable to RAM in your computer. The console accesses the Memory in the cartridge via Addresses and this is super fast. There are practically no loading times on ROM-Based consoles due to the fact that all data is instantly accessible in the cartridge. For example the PSX is CD-Based. It has to load the game data from the CD-ROM into the system memory (aka RAM) so it can be executed fast enough - loading times occur. The same thing is happening on your PC - if you click an .exe file it gets first loaded into your RAM and then the program is executed.

Old consoles like the NES or the GB just tried to read the start-address of your cartridge and executed the code at that memory address. The GBA must have had some more logic, since it could boot games via the link cable for Multiplayer modes with only one cart.

The DSi has even more logic since it is totally usable without any cart present. You have your channel menu your shop and other stuff. Whenn you insert your DScart the DS examines the cart and shows that a game (or whatever) has been inserted. When you launch the game it jumps to the start address in the ROM of the cart and plays the software. If it detects an old DSgame it *might* (probably is) be able to limit the hardware to DS-features only.

*speculation*: If the cart is able to authenticate itself against the DSi as a legit DSi cart, the DSi can allow the use of DSi-only ressources. What I don't know is if there actually IS an auth process and how it works. There could be some kind of certificate on the cart which is signed by the Nintendo's private key and contains the checksum of the rom contents. only if the checksum and the pub/priv-keys match, the DSi allows access to DSi features. If nintendo decided to go this way, the "scene" has two options:
1 "easy") Hack the DSi Firmware e.g. insert Homebrewchannel that boots unsigned software
2 "hard") Hack Nintendo's private key to self-sign software... Depending on the cryptographic algorithm this may take "a while" (time since big bang...).

bye
Dark-Sider

 

[Placeholder]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks Dark-Sider.