Hacking Emulation POPS on PSP/Vita - Config Research

[Webardo]

Do we know if there's any compatibility differences between PSP 6.60 POPS and PS Vita POPS?
We know that PS Vita POPS is based on PSP 6.60 POPS but it's very heavily changed (specially sound emulation is completely reworked).
But I am still not sure about them having the same exact compatibility. What do you guys think?

Well, without messing with anything, compatibility is mostly the same. Except that disc swapping is more reliable for Vita (Fear Effect 1&2 are examples of this).

Otherwise, Vita's POPS has a lot more configurations to apply, so some games like Worms Armageddon work fine with a config file, whereas it does not get past the intro on PSP.
Also, Crash Bandicoot 3 fixed the swirl effect that occurs when entering and leaving a level, because Vita's POPS has an updated internal config. That shouldn't matter by now however, as I ported most configs from Vita to PSP (except those that rely on Vita only configs).

 

[Acid_Snake]

Well, without messing with anything, compatibility is mostly the same. Except that disc swapping is more reliable for Vita (Fear Effect 1&2 are examples of this).

Otherwise, Vita's POPS has a lot more configurations to apply, so some games like Worms Armageddon work fine with a config file, whereas it does not get past the intro on PSP.
Also, Crash Bandicoot 3 fixed the swirl effect that occurs when entering and leaving a level, because Vita's POPS has an updated internal config. That shouldn't matter by now however, as I ported most configs from Vita to PSP (except those that rely on Vita only configs).

This would make a potential PSP PopsLoader for Vita somewhat useless then (aside from all the work it requires).

 

[Webardo]

This would make a potential PSP PopsLoader for Vita somewhat useless then (aside from all the work it requires).

Yeah, I think the only game that would need PopsLoader by now is Destruction Derby 2, as it works on 3.02 only due to some different GTE math I believe.

 

[mrjaredbeta]

Do we know if there's any compatibility differences between PSP 6.60 POPS and PS Vita POPS?
We know that PS Vita POPS is based on PSP 6.60 POPS but it's very heavily changed (specially sound emulation is completely reworked).
But I am still not sure about them having the same exact compatibility. What do you guys think?

They should be pretty close. Compatibility may be a bit different in some instances, mainly due to the differences in sound emulation. “POPS for Vita” has added config commands and additional parameters for existing commands that can fix issues that are “unfixable” on PSP (for example, Star Wars: The Phantom Menace freezing issues or Worms Armageddon without additional PPF patch). It also looks like the final update for “POPS for Vita” was firmware 3.50.

EDIT: Didn’t see the other posts above this, my bad.

 

[Webardo]

EDIT: Didn’t see the other posts above this, my bad.

No problem though, you mentioned some useful information too.

 

[Acid_Snake]

Yeah, I think the only game that would need PopsLoader by now is Destruction Derby 2, as it works on 3.02 only due to some different GTE math I believe.

Getting 3.02 PSP POPS to work on Vita will probably be a huge hit and miss. Any PSP-based PopsLoader for Vita would be way a lot of hard work since we can't forget the limitations in audio playback due to the unfinished/buggy PEOPS SPU plugin.

It also looks like the final update for “POPS for Vita” was firmware 3.50.

I doubt we can (easily) do a PopsLoader for Vita POPS, as it's way too dependant on Vita-side (pspemu). So if you were to load a very early (say, the very first FW 1.80) Vita POPS then you'll have to load the entire pspemu from that FW, and that's a whole beast on its own.

tldr:
Regarding a possible PopsLoader on PS Vita, the two potential routes are very complex to achieve and neither of them guarantees success. So I'm gonna take this time to congratulate you guys for all the hard work on fixing incompatible games on 6.60 PSP/Vita POPS, since it seems we're gonna be stuck with that one (on PS Vita at least).

 

[mrjaredbeta]

And I would also like to report another problematic game on adrenaline, it is the European exclusive motorcycle racing game called Extreme 500, it works quite well but if you restart the race it freezes, something like the problem in the first Driver.

I have attached the config that fixes this issue. Please test to make sure everything works fine!

Regarding a possible PopsLoader on PS Vita, the two potential routes are very complex to achieve and neither of them guarantees success. So I'm gonna take this time to congratulate you guys for all the hard work on fixing incompatible games on 6.60 PSP/Vita POPS, since it seems we're gonna be stuck with that one (on PS Vita at least).

No worries! I believe 99% of PS1 library should be compatible on PSP 6.61/Vita 3.6x when all is said and done.

 

[Acid_Snake]

No worries! I believe 99% of PS1 library should be compatible on PSP 6.61/Vita 3.6x when all is said and done.

Fair enough, I'm not a big fan of PopsLoader anyways because it overrides the CFW's PopCorn module (the module that makes POPS read custom unsigned eboots), basically eliminating any possible improvement that the CFW could already have built into it and pretty much eliminating the control that the CFW has over PS1 games. That and the slower load times.

One clear example of this is how I recently added CDDA Enabler code to ARK's PopCorn module (so CDDA is always available to PS1 games in every ARK installation, either PSP or Vita). Using PopsLoader would revert back to the classic PRO PopCorn module and you loose this patch so now you have to install the cdda_enabler plugin separately, unless you load a POPS version that already has CDDA.

Long story short, I prefer much more what you guys are doing: fixing PS1 games on 6.6X and Vita POPS so we don't need PopsLoader anymore.

 

[Webardo]

Fair enough, I'm not a big fan of PopsLoader anyways because it overrides the CFW's PopCorn module (the module that makes POPS read custom unsigned eboots), basically eliminating any possible improvement that the CFW could already have built into it and pretty much eliminating the control that the CFW has over PS1 games. That and the slower load times.

One clear example of this is how I recently added CDDA Enabler code to ARK's PopCorn module (so CDDA is always available to PS1 games in every ARK installation, either PSP or Vita). Using PopsLoader would revert back to the classic PRO PopCorn module and you loose this patch so now you have to install the cdda_enabler plugin separately, unless you load a POPS version that already has CDDA.

Long story short, I prefer much more what you guys are doing: fixing PS1 games on 6.6X and Vita POPS so we don't need PopsLoader anymore.

Hey, pop-fe converts the CDDA to AT3, just like the official PSN eboots. I believe there's no need to force CDDA Enabler, because you can you do the same on a per-game basis by using bit 13 of cmd 0xFF. You could leave the option to disable/enable it though if possible.
The only game so far that requires CDDA because of audio issues is V-Rally 2.

Also, yeah, I agree with that about PopsLoader. Some of the earlier POPS have lower quality audio too, and a lot less settings, so they are less preferable overall.

 

[mrjaredbeta]

Using PopsLoader would revert back to the classic PRO PopCorn module and you loose this patch so now you have to install the cdda_enabler plugin separately, unless you load a POPS version that already has CDDA.

because you can you do the same on a per-game basis by using bit 13 of cmd 0xFF.

Yup, could not have said it any better! Kozarovv reversed that cdda_enabler and cmd 0xFF bit 13 inside of POPS essentially hit the same branch. There is not really any harm in enabling it at all times, but pop-fe can maybe enable this bit for the “Use CDDA, not AT3” checkbox instead to ensure CDDA is only enabled when it is needed (if it is not already doing this, can’t check right now).

I believe Tekken 2 US was the only game released on the store to use this config command.

 

[Snowbro88]

@mrjaredbeta Hello, thank you for the latest fix for Extreme 500, I already tested it and it works very well, without any problems now.

Now I would like to report one more game that needs a fix, it is Animorphs: Shattered Reality, it has a very long initial loading time (where you can see the developers' logos), in the end it is a game that has bad reviews in general, to me I like how the platforming is similar to the Neo Cortex factory levels from the first Crash Bandicoot and is from SingleTrac developers of some Twisted Metal and other interesting PS1 games.

 

[Acid_Snake]

Hey, pop-fe converts the CDDA to AT3, just like the official PSN eboots. I believe there's no need to force CDDA Enabler, because you can you do the same on a per-game basis by using bit 13 of cmd 0xFF. You could leave the option to disable/enable it though if possible.
The only game so far that requires CDDA because of audio issues is V-Rally 2.

Also, yeah, I agree with that about PopsLoader. Some of the earlier POPS have lower quality audio too, and a lot less settings, so they are less preferable overall.

Lots of EBOOT.PBP that you find online require CDDA (i.e. Tekken 3), most are made using PSX2PSP so they don't have the updated pop-fe patches.
From what I could gather, it doesn't really hurt to have the patch always applied.

 

[ronniesahlberg]

Yup, could not have said it any better! Kozarovv reversed that cdda_enabler and cmd 0xFF bit 13 inside of POPS essentially hit the same branch. There is not really any harm in enabling it at all times, but pop-fe can maybe enable this bit for the “Use CDDA, not AT3” checkbox instead to ensure CDDA is only enabled when it is needed (if it is not already doing this, can’t check right now).

I believe Tekken 2 US was the only game released on the store to use this config command.

The "Use CDDA button" right now basically just makes sure the whole disk/all tracks are written to the eboot instead of the truncating the disc image after track #1.

For cdda_enabler, Can you tell me exactly what I should set in the config, and if I should set it for psp, vita or both, and I can add that tomorrow.
Do you want me to add the config for that 500 game too now that it has been tested and works?

Post automatically merged: Feb 24, 2024

Lots of EBOOT.PBP that you find online require CDDA (i.e. Tekken 3), most are made using PSX2PSP so they don't have the updated pop-fe patches.
From what I could gather, it doesn't really hurt to have the patch always applied.

The PSX2PSP eboots should ideally be deleted and replaced.

 

[Acid_Snake]

The PSX2PSP eboots should ideally be deleted and replaced.

I agree but good luck with that, people went NUTS when cdromance took down the links because of their collection of custom-made PSX2PSP eboots.

The only eboots I see that appear to be made using pop-fe are exactly the games that need it, otherwise PSX2PSP is what you'll find.

This reminds me of the whole CSO vs ZSO thing. Where ZSO and even JSO are far better options to CSO and DAX, yet online you'll only find CSO or DAX (if not plain ISO). The case of ZSO is even worse, the format has been supported by PRO-C2 for almost a decade now and people didn't even know it existed until recently (most people probably don't know that PRO-C2 supports ZSO).

Sometimes things just take their time to catch up, hopefully bit by bit we'll start seeing more eboots using pop-fe than psx2psp.

 

[mrjaredbeta]

For cdda_enabler, Can you tell me exactly what I should set in the config, and if I should set it for psp, vita or both, and I can add that tomorrow.

Yup, it should be set for both PSP and Vita. Command 0xFF bit 13 would have to be ORed into the game’s config, or a config created if there is no config for a game. You can also look at Tekken 2’s config in the current pspconfigs to see exactly how it should look.

Do you want me to add the config for that 500 game too now that it has been tested and works?

That would be great!

 

[ronniesahlberg]

Yup, it should be set for both PSP and Vita. Command 0xFF bit 13 would have to be ORed into the game’s config, or a config created if there is no config for a game. You can also look at Tekken 2’s config in the current pspconfigs to see exactly how it should look.

That would be great!

https://github.com/sahlberg/pop-fe/actions/runs/8032712271
The config is added and bit 13 is now set when cdda is enabled in pop-fe-psp

 

[trickytree]

Is anyone able to look at Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius - Forever with Me please?

It has a similar issue to another Konami game, ISS Deluxe, where the sound and game stutters constantly. That game was fixed, so I wonder if this one could be too?

 

[ronniesahlberg]

Friendly reminder,
anyone working on getting this working on PSP : Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace ?

Post automatically merged: Feb 25, 2024

Is anyone able to look at Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius - Forever with Me please?

It has a similar issue to another Konami game, ISS Deluxe, where the sound and game stutters constantly. That game was fixed, so I wonder if this one could be too?

You are right, at least to me it seems that the ISS deluxe config fixes also Jikkyou.
Please try this version once it finishes building:
https://github.com/sahlberg/pop-fe/actions/runs/8037035862

It is entirely possible, neh quite likely, that a development studio has a bunch of library functions that they re-use from game to game, and thus the same type of issue can be seen (and fixed) in various different titles from that studio.

Please try the build I linked to above. At least to me, originally the initial audio and voice recording had very pronounced stutter but with just pointing it to the same config as ISS Deluxe the stutter is gone.
So I checked it in. (It is under version control so we can just revert it if it breaks something).
Please verify.

Also, do you want to check all other Konami titles if they have the same style of stutter as Jikkyou and ISS Deluxe? In that case we can try to "fix" them the same way.
And if it works, can you also add an entry to https://www.psdevwiki.com/psp/PS1_Classics_Emulator_Compatibility_List for this game that it works (as long as you convert with pop-fe to get the config)

 

[trickytree]

Thanks, that config fixes most of the sound issues in Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius. I noticed that the sound breaks up when the game gets busy (happens in stage 1 when 'That’s the Way I Like It' starts playing), but otherwise it's much better than before.

Unless there's a very obscure title I don't know about, these are the only two Konami games with this issue. They are both upgraded ports of SNES/SFC titles, so maybe Konami did some kind of sound conversion coding with them.

I'd edit that wiki if it was more straightforward. I don't see a way to easily add an entry, unless I'm missing something.

 

[torrent_get]

Thanks, that config fixes most of the sound issues in Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius. I noticed that the sound breaks up when the game gets busy (happens in stage 1 when 'That’s the Way I Like It' starts playing), but otherwise it's much better than before.

Unless there's a very obscure title I don't know about, these are the only two Konami games with this issue. They are both upgraded ports of SNES/SFC titles, so maybe Konami did some kind of sound conversion coding with them.

I'd edit that wiki if it was more straightforward. I don't see a way to easily add an entry, unless I'm missing something.

Is there a problem as stage 1 bgm does start strangely.