On this day 78 years ago, the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, ending the war

[mrdude]

As much as I appreciate your permission, I really didn't need it. I am just trying to understand what it is that you support. You are communicating that civilian lives are worth the "sacrifice". So what is that for?

I'm informing you of the reality of life, it's not difficult to undestrand that actions have consequences and that for every action there is a reaction.

 

[tabzer]

I'm informing you of the reality of life, it's not difficult to undestrand that actions have consequences and that for every action there is a reaction.

Civilians didn't start or fight wars. The whole point I am making is that they are suffering the consequences of someone else, and you are supportive of that.

If you want to inform me that "what is, is", you were doing a better job by not saying anything in the first place.

 

[mrdude]

You've made your point that you don't think civilians should suffer for your leaders and your militaries actions. However in the real world there are very serious consequences for those as the Japanese and many others throughout history have found out. Even today there are countries finding out that actions have consequences, if the civilians are finding it hard to deal with those consequences, they should elect new leaders if they live in a democracy, and if they don't they should start a coup and overthrogh those in charge that are making bad decisions on their behalf.

 

[tabzer]

You've made your point that you don't think civilians should suffer for your leaders and your militaries actions. However in the real world there are very serious consequences for those as the Japanese and many others throughout history have found out. Even today there are countries finding out that actions have consequences, if the civilians are finding it hard to deal with those consequences, they should elect new leaders if they live in a democracy, and if they don't they should start a coup and overthrogh those in charge that are making bad decisions on their behalf.

It seems like you are saying that you think that the "status quo" is satisfactory, and that nothing should be changed. Is that an assumption on my part?

You say that civilians are "asking for this" by not risking their necks to protect you from their own oppressors.

Are you okay with the prospect of becoming fodder for a war that you don't believe in?

 

[chrisk]

Civilians didn't start or fight wars. The whole point I am making is that they are suffering the consequences of someone else, and you are supportive of that.

If you want to inform me that "what is, is", you were doing a better job by not saying anything in the first place.

The fact is, Japanese built a shine honoring the ones started the war. They are still being honored to this day. I think the civilians do bear some responsibility if they are willing to honor and even worship the war criminal 50 years after.

 

[tabzer]

The fact is, Japanese built a shine honoring the ones started the war. They are still being honored to this day.

There's controversy here about it. Even heated disagreement. I'm not personally interested in exercising authority over the matter. I will say that the dead are not being honored for starting a war, but for dying for their nation, which you should admire if you are in agreement with @mrdude.

 

[tabzer]

Too many British nationalists in this thread

 

[chrisk]

There's controversy here about it. Even heated disagreement. I'm not personally interested in exercising authority over the matter. I will say that the dead are not being honored for starting a war, but for dying for their nation, which you should admire if you are in agreement with @mrdude.

Just the thing, they didn't die fighting in the war. Some of them lived out their lives in peace after and was still put there after.

 

[leon315]

This is an atrocity that has caused thousands of innocent lives to perish under the flash of light. Even though the perpetrators were the victors, this act should be condemned and we should strive to never have those acts of mass destruction ever again.

The imperialist japanese were BEYOND BRUTAL to any non-japanese people, japanese out did greatly Nazis' war crimes, especially in Nanking China, Manilla Philippines or Malaysia etc etc.....

I'm pretty sure OP is a fanatic japanese, guess nowdays Japan shouldn't portray themselves as victims of nuclear annihilation (which is hypocrite as F), but ask yourselves the reasons why Japan was nuked in the 1st place.

As Italian, we knew exactly who are japanese during WW2 and they fucking deserved 2 GIANT nukes up their ass.

Fuck fascists and suck my furry balls.

 

[chrisk]

The imperialist japanese were BEYOND BRUTAL to any non-japanese people, japanese out did greatly Nazis' war crimes, especially in Nanking China, Manilla Philippines or Malaysia etc etc.....

I'm pretty sure OP is a fanatic japanese, guess nowdays Japan shouldn't portray themselves as victims of nuclear annihilation (which is hypocrite as F), but ask yourselves the reasons why Japan was nuked in the 1st place.

As Italian, we knew exactly who are japanese during WW2 and they fucking deserved 2 GIANT nukes up their ass.

Fuck fascists and suck my furry balls.

And they still carry their imperialist flag to national events. Hypocrite as F indeed.

 

[mrdude]

Civilians didn't start or fight wars.

Politicians are civilians, so I disagree with this comment.

 

[Deleted member 194275]

Too many British nationalists in this thread

I was not reading (apparently posts here got removed) but the fun part is that Stalin got his nuke thanks to the UK.

 

[tabzer]

Just the thing, they didn't die fighting in the war. Some of them lived out their lives in peace after and was still put there after.

The Yasukuni Shrine was established in 1869 in Tokyo, Japan. Its primary purpose was to honor and commemorate the spirits of Japanese individuals who died in service to the nation, specifically those who fought and died in wars during the Meiji Restoration and subsequent conflicts, including World War II. It wasn't built for WWII to celebrate war crimes.

There is a strong tradition of honoring the dead through funeral rites and enshrinement, regardless of how good or bad the person's actions might have been in life. Japanese funeral customs are rooted in a mix of religious beliefs, including Shinto and Buddhism, as well as cultural practices that emphasize respect for the deceased and maintaining harmony with the spirits.

There have been instances where individuals who did not die in battle or in direct service to the war effort were enshrined at Yasukuni Shrine.

"The shrine lists the names, origins, birthdates, and places of death of 2,466,532 people.[2] Among those are 1,068 convicted war criminals, 14 of whom are A-Class (convicted of having been involved in the planning, preparation, initiation, or waging of the war)." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine

Politicians are civilians

That depends on the politician and their role within the military. So they can be. I would assume that if the government is military, that you'd be largely incorrect.

Saying Japanese people deserved to be bombed blames even the lowest of peasants.

Are you okay with the prospect of becoming fodder for a war that you don't believe in?

 

[chrisk]

The Yasukuni Shrine was established in 1869 in Tokyo, Japan. Its primary purpose was to honor and commemorate the spirits of Japanese individuals who died in service to the nation, specifically those who fought and died in wars during the Meiji Restoration and subsequent conflicts, including World War II. It wasn't built for WWII to celebrate war crimes.

There is a strong tradition of honoring the dead through funeral rites and enshrinement, regardless of how good or bad the person's actions might have been in life. Japanese funeral customs are rooted in a mix of religious beliefs, including Shinto and Buddhism, as well as cultural practices that emphasize respect for the deceased and maintaining harmony with the spirits.

There have been instances where individuals who did not die in battle or in direct service to the war effort were enshrined at Yasukuni Shrine.

"The shrine lists the names, origins, birthdates, and places of death of 2,466,532 people.[2] Among those are 1,068 convicted war criminals, 14 of whom are A-Class (convicted of having been involved in the planning, preparation, initiation, or waging of the war)." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine



That depends on the politician and their role within the military. So they can be. I would assume that if the government is military, that you'd be largely incorrect.

Saying Japanese people deserved to be bombed blames even the lowest of peasants.

Are you okay with the prospect of becoming fodder for a war that you don't believe in?

How about Japanese pilots being given just little more than enough fuel to get to their target so they can fight and die there instead of coming home? Japanese civilians were very supportive of their war efforts. They eagerly enlisted knowing they will die with HONOR saying banzai. Or running chemical experimenting on civilian captives? Or running slave mines or slave sex camps?

How would you wage a war with that kind of enemy?

Looking at their past tactics and the level of barbarism they were capable of, Japanese wouldn't have hesitated to drop more than 2 nukes if they had their chance.

The fact that the second nuke had to be dropped to get them to surrender proves no amount of small victories will ever get them to surrender.

Unless you are Japanese, be glad they were the ones to be nuked. If it was the other way around, Japanese would have killed a lot more people than the ones died from nukes everywhere around the world.

End don't always justify the mean. But in this case, yes it did.

 

[tabzer]

How about Japanese pilots being given just little more than enough fuel to get to their target so they can fight and die there instead of coming home? Japanese civilians were very supportive of their war efforts. They eagerly enlisted knowing they will die with HONOR saying banzai. Or running chemical experimenting on civilian captives? Or running slave mines or slave sex camps?

How would you wage a war with that kind of enemy?

Looking at their past tactics and the level of barbarism they were capable of, Japanese wouldn't have hesitated to drop more than 2 nukes if they had their chance.

The fact that the second nuke had to be dropped to get them to surrender proves no amount of small victories will ever get them to surrender.

Unless you are Japanese, be glad they were the ones to be nuked. If it was the other way around, Japanese would have killed a lot more people than the ones died from nukes everywhere around the world.

End don't always justify the mean. But in this case, yes it did.

Your intention is clear. You have no desire to acknowledge propaganda when you use it. There is no room for me at this conversation.

In general, you don't seem to have read any of my posts. You are just grabbing more and more ammo wherever you can find it, despite its origins, and despite facts.

 

[JeepX87]

Well, I can imagine the death toll would be a lot higher if the US needed to land on the main island. In both civilian and military lives.

These bombs did force the Japanese cabinet to lay down their weapons or face it on Tokyo.

Yes, you are right, it would be hot mess if it wasn't for bomb, so it means the US would have to deal with Japan and Korea. After Japan surrendered, the US was able to focus on Korea and prevent from fall into communist's hand.

 

[mrdude]

Your intention is clear. You have no desire to acknowledge propaganda when you use it. There is no room for me at this conversation.

In general, you don't seem to have read any of my posts. You are just grabbing more and more ammo wherever you can find it, despite its origins, and despite facts.

You seem to be awfully butt hurt that the empire of the sun was reduced to ashes in some parts, most sensible western people and those who had been invaded, had relatives killed by them, been tortured, raped, enslaved, experimented on, prisoners, etc were glad the war ended quickly in the way it did and with the new tech that was available and had no doubt prevented more wars since and saved countless lives because of its existance. Not to mention we can now use that same tech to generate clean electrical power.

How would you have dealt with the Japanese? Would you have kept on fighting them on the battlefield and dragged the war out for years on end with countless millions of more people suffering at their hands? Or do you just like whining about something that happend in the past and add that to your victimhood mentality? I don't expect you will have any answers for how you would have dealt with them, but for them - mass death was the only way they were going to stop fighting and what better way than to kill them on mass in a single day.

 

[tabzer]

You seem to be awfully butt hurt that the empire of the sun was reduced to ashes in some parts, most sensible western people and those who had been invaded, had relatives killed by them, been tortured, raped, enslaved, experimented on, prisoners, etc were glad the war ended quickly in the way it did and with the new tech that was available and had no doubt prevented more wars since and saved countless lives because of its existance. Not to mention we can now use that same tech to generate clean electrical power.

How would you have dealt with the Japanese? Would you have kept on fighting them on the battlefield and dragged the war out for years on end with countless millions of more people suffering at their hands? Or do you just like whining about something that happend in the past and add that to your victimhood mentality? I don't expect you will have any answers for how you would have dealt with them, but for them - mass death was the only way they were going to stop fighting and what better way than to kill them on mass in a single day.

Saying Japanese people deserved to be bombed blames even the lowest of peasants for crimes they did not commit.

Are you okay with the prospect of becoming fodder for a war that you don't believe in?

I'm not the victim, here. I am saying that a lot of civilians were and you essentially said they weren't. Swallowing propaganda made to make you feel justified about it just makes you hostile and on track to redo history. It's ridiculous to pretend that we could have made the decision. Tell me the truth, please.

Are you okay with the prospect of becoming fodder for a war that you don't believe in? If yes, then I respect your dedication to your nation. If no, then we are in agreement that citizens shouldn't be used as fodder.

 

[krzys4x]

the ww2 war was ending becouse mln red army was storming on japan they afraid red army not usa

Post automatically merged: Aug 13, 2023

 

[TraderPatTX]

Did you just wake up and started projecting?

And are you denying that Cheney and Bush started a 20 year "war" that costed trillions for nothing?

At least Obama got Osama.

Post automatically merged: Aug 12, 2023

I totally agree that Bush/Cheney started a forever war based on lies. Can you not read? What I'm saying is that the left have totally forgotten about their war crimes and torture. Now your shiny object is Trump and documents. You are a complete joke and nobody takes you seriously.

Clarification: the right is all for Putin to annex illegally a country and genocide its people while the left wants to empower the locals to fight the new Soviet Union. Because the right is largely made of Putin cucks that somehow think he's an amazing leader while he famished the population and let the oligarchs get fat.

Point to any comment where I support the invasion of Ukraine.

Good lord the right is all NPCs I swear.

The left are just intellectually lazy and not very smart.

Where's that brainless thread defender? This is clearly a massive off topic and yet I don't see any stupid trolling around with "Where's the point blah blah blah"

The left are reduced calling people who are anti-war "Putin puppets". It is obvious you have never been in a combat zone. This would be a good time for you to shut your mouth and listen to people who have been in one.

If World War III kicks off, don't get mad when you get drafted. Maybe they will call me back up, I retain my previous rank and become your platoon sergeant.

Post automatically merged: Aug 13, 2023

If you are aware of his position, at all, you'd understand that he dislikes them too. Are you even trying? Generally, Trump supporters disapprove of Bush and Obama. That's where I agree with them.

@Dark_Ansem is either not trying or he is illiterate or so blinded by hate that he can't even see when somebody agrees with his position. He's intellectually lazy and only spouts whatever the media-government complex programs him to regurgitate. In a way, it's sad seeing grown adults not able to form original thoughts or even hold opposing viewpoints at the same time. Thankfully, there is only a small group who comment on this forum with this affliction. They know who they are. I'll continue holding out hope for them nonetheless.