Hacking HBC to use IOS58

[Slowking]

It is a joke from an unnerved adault. If you knew anthing about the internal workings of a Wii ou would know the answer to your question.
Since you don't you shouldn't be messing with this stuff.

 

[nIxx]

You just install IOS58 so nope nothing bad will happen.

 

[litium]

It is a joke from an unnerved adault. If you knew anthing about the internal workings of a Wii ou would know the answer to your question.
Since you don't you shouldn't be messing with this stuff.

I know enough to know that anything that involves IOS installing is a bit risky, thats the reason of my question. Instead of just jerking people around you could be a little more polite and just tell things correctly.

PS. Thanks for the tip nIxx, installing it now

 

[Skizzo]

I don't think something like that would stand up in court if Nintendo was somehow compelled to try to sue someone for it. I mean the reason they don't give out the links is because the average user doesn't need them. They either update by disc or by the internet with their menus. I can't think of why they'd have to officially point it out.

The only thing that might have merit is the whole downloading WiiWare/VC thing, which as you've said NUSAD doesn't do. But for all the content, the stuff is encrypted. Decrypting it may fall into a grey area though. Not entirley sure on that one.

NOBODY using Nintendo's hardware in the manner they authorize would need the links...not even the non-average user.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to pick on Xflak because his app is somehow unique. It isn't. In fact, as he even so much as said in another thread, it isn't even so much an app as it is scripts to work on other apps. I was and am just interested as to wether he actually consulted with anyone about this. And the only reason why I did distinguish and choose to ask him, instead of any of the other coders, is because as far as I'm aware, he is the only one who makes the claim of "this is the ONLY FULLY LEGAL way to..blah..blah" or something to that effect. Whenever I see a completely unambiguous claim like that made, I'd hope the person making it can support it with proof, and not assumptions about how the law works, especially given all the different locales his users will be coming from.

Even if someone were to come along and prove without any doubt that his claim is untrue, I'm not going to be hounding him to remove it. I just want to know the answer. And just because Nintendo most likely will never do anything regarding these sorts of apps, that doesn't mean they are somehow legal, and that's not the kind of information I'm looking for. I wonder, has anyone ever written Nintendo to ask if it was OK to access their update servers with a PC/MAC app? If they said NO, then I believe that'd be all it would take to invalidate Xflak's claim. As far as I know, the servers aren't listed anywhere publicly by Nintendo and they were only discovered by 'hacking' and the individual file addresses certainly never could have been discovered by someone randomly browsing the web. You get nothing but errors unless you enter the url needed to directly access each file individually. It's ridiculous to think that the ONLY reason Nintendo doesn't provide these links ANYWHERE is because the 'average user' doesn't need them. Shit, there are all kinds of links to software around the web that the 'average user' doesn't need, and are only useful to extremely 'hardcore' users, from OS's to programming languages etc.

@Xflak, glad to hear you had a good time (I hope). Perhaps the alcohol had something to do with your claim that simply owning a Wii gives you the right to any/all of the code your app grabs. Kind of sounds like if I purchase Windows Vista that I'm then entitled to download XP, 2000 or any other old OS MS produced. Or if I purchase a 3rd Ed. eBook, I'm then entitled to download the 1st and 2nd Ed. as well. When you buy a new Wii, or update your Wii, Nintendo has stub IOS's on it, no? Then that is what you've purchased. Not the right to go and download any code you want off Nintendo's servers, just because you found a way in other than through the front door (the key being your Wii), to replace those stubs. Considering Nintendo doesn't provide any way to delete those stubs for any type of user, that should be obvious.

In the end though, I don't think you have to worry about Nintendo coming after you (or anyone else) but I don't doubt you'd do what you said at the first hint that Nintendo was coming after you. But there's the crux. If you genuinely believed that your app is fully legal, as you claim it to be, then you wouldn't have to do those things. The very fact that you say you would implies that you don't even believe your own claim. Maybe you should change it from 'completely legal' or whatever it is (fully legal?) to 'the only way that's allowed to be shared on GBAtemp because wads aren't allowed' or something along those lines.

And for anyone interested, I stumbled upon this link a while back http://www.mosstingrett.no/info/legal.html

Not sure how much of that is relevant or outdated, but it contains some information for several (44) countries. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe I read that in at least one of the countries, simply writing an app that helped others to illegally access computers was a crime in and of itself. Food for thought. Or not.

 

[s3phir0th115]

I think you're REALLY overthinking this Shizzo.

Currently law at least in the United States for example dictates, as far as I'm aware, that it's legal to connect to someone elses unsecured wifi, but not to break into the said wifi. You have to find access points by scanning for them. Is that hacking?

Unless there is a giant difference I'm not seeing here, I don't see how accessing a web server with no mechanisms to stop a PC from getting it would be any different in the eyes of the law. In fact, connecting to an access point would be MORE extreme, if anything. Because that's accessing someone's entire network, not a remote server.

I might understand your point if Nintendo had mechanisms preventing someone from accessing the NUS from a PC, but... they don't.

But they do have mechanisms preventing someone from doing the same thing for stuff like virtual console and wiiware stuff. So, if it was really something they wanted protected, I'm pretty sure it'd be protected.

 

[Skizzo]

So by leaving your house unlocked you are giving permission to everyone to take everything?

There is nothing in copyright law that says that you have to prevent people from copying your stuff to be legally covered.

The common reason to put something on the internet is for other ppl to access it free of charge.
Thats not true for your home.

Don't you, in fact, put your home/office computer 'on the internet' any time you are connected to the internet? So, anyone doing so who fails to secure their connection, is giving permission for anyone else to come along and grab whatever they want? Nintendo no more put their files on the internet than does the average person putting their computer on the internet unsecured. They were never, to the best of my knowledge, publicly announced or provided. That's a big difference to the context you are using regarding the 'common reason to put something on the internet'.

Perhaps a better analogy (although I think the other ones provided are sufficient given the lack of reasonable rebuttals) would be let's say you purchase a ticket to XYZ (the Wii), which includes a guided (Wii's update process) tour of ABC (Wii's update servers) which includes a free bag of popcorn (the authorized updates themselves). You come along and find the back door to ABC wide open and decide you're going to take your own unguided tour and in addition to grabbing the popcorn, you help yourself to whatever else they may have offered at one time or another, despite not offering it anymore. I'm almost certain you'd be breaking the law, including criminal trespass and theft. But I'm open to hearing why you'd think otherwise.

 

[s3phir0th115]

Don't you, in fact, put your home/office computer 'on the internet' any time you are connected to the internet? So, anyone doing so who fails to secure their connection, is giving permission for anyone else to come along and grab whatever they want? Nintendo no more put their files on the internet than does the average person putting their computer on the internet unsecured. They were never, to the best of my knowledge, publicly announced or provided. That's a big difference to the context you are using regarding the 'common reason to put something on the internet'.

Perhaps a better analogy (although I think the other ones provided are sufficient given the lack of reasonable rebuttals) would be let's say you purchase a ticket to XYZ (the Wii), which includes a guided (Wii's update process) tour of ABC (Wii's update servers) which includes a free bag of popcorn (the authorized updates themselves). You come along and find the back door to ABC wide open and decide you're going to take your own unguided tour and in addition to grabbing the popcorn, you help yourself to whatever else they may have offered at one time or another, despite not offering it anymore. I'm almost certain you'd be breaking the law, including criminal trespass and theft. But I'm open to hearing why you'd think otherwise.

In that instance, you are almost always behind a router of some sort, which would constitute a form of protection. You also probably aren't running an http server that is hosting files for a bunch of users. And, last I checked, I don't think you need some kind of special permission to access any given http resource on the internet. There are security methods available if they truly didnt' want PC's being able to access it. (Because, like I said, they do just that for Virtual Console/Wiiware stuff.)

 

[XFlak]

damn skizzo, that was a mouthful... lol... before I get started, I am not a lawyer. And I have not formally seaked legal counsel on the matter. I do know a lawyer, and he's helped me out a few times to make sure I'm safe.

#1, my app IS legal, but its not legal everywhere in the world, so if a country deems it illegal, it is their responsibility to get their ISPs to block the website hosting the updates. Even if it were illegal in Canada, which I don't think it is, my files are not hosted in Canada, so Canadian authorities cant really say anything. Which brings me to my next point... I'm not hosting ANY files personally, I have all my updates on filetrip, which is affiliated with gbatemp... so technically if something illegal is going on, its their legal staff that will have to determine whether to forcefully remove my app from their website (although if it got that out of hand I would prolly remove it myself just to be safe)

The one thing I can say with 100% certainty, is that NUSAD does NOT contain any copyright code. So this makes it legal in most places. The only places it MAY be deemed illegal is in countries where unlocking anything is considered illegal. And if that's the case, all that country needs to do is get their ISPs to block gbatemp and filetrip or w/e. I know a lot of countries block shit like that.

@Xflak, glad to hear you had a good time (I hope). Perhaps the alcohol had something to do with your claim that simply owning a Wii gives you the right to any/all of the code your app grabs. Kind of sounds like if I purchase Windows Vista that I'm then entitled to download XP, 2000 or any other old OS MS produced. Or if I purchase a 3rd Ed. eBook, I'm then entitled to download the 1st and 2nd Ed. as well. When you buy a new Wii, or update your Wii, Nintendo has stub IOS's on it, no? Then that is what you've purchased. Not the right to go and download any code you want off Nintendo's servers, just because you found a way in other than through the front door (the key being your Wii), to replace those stubs. Considering Nintendo doesn't provide any way to delete those stubs for any type of user, that should be obvious.

I disagree... and ur analogy SUCKS! Here is a better analogy... when I purchase Windows Seven (fuck Vista from ur example, lol), I am entitled to every single update they produce until Windows Seven isn't supported anymore. The same applies to the Wii, when u purchased the Wii, u are entitled to every update they EVER provide.
Back to Windows... u notice how windows gives u the option of which updates to download and install? Well, the Wii SHOULD offer the same thing... like, wtf would I want to stub an IOS?? So lets 'uncheck' that update.
Back to windows again... u notice how u can download updates and install them later? Hell, you can manually go to microsofts website and download any individual update for any operating system without even validating your windows (ie. I think u could prolly download XP files on windows 7, then install them on ur XP machine later). That's exactly what all the Wii Apps do when they connect to NUS servers.

Basically, I feel that when u purchase a Wii, all those updates are for u, and nintendo ASKS you would you like to perform an update... but they don't let u pick and choose what exactly to update... and u can see why because it would be dangerous. But the fact remains, when u buy a wii, u are entitled to as many or as little of their updates as u like. Besides, its not like ninty can tell the difference between a wii connecting to NUS vs a PC (@ least I don't think it makes a difference)

Anyways, Skizzo, plz stop trying to prove NUSAD is illegal. U r a pain in my ass, I just spent 30 minutes writing this shit instead of working on the NUSAD update I need to release this weekend.

In the end... this is why nusad is legal...
1) it doesn't contain any copyright code
2) its all open source
3) if nusd is legal, then so is nusad when it connects to NUS servers... and nusd is hosted on wiibrew.org. And they would never host something illegal (I think we can ALL agree on that). So based on that alone, I think it is safe to say accessing NUS servers without doing a direct ninty update is legal... and I'm sure wiibrew.org DOES have lawyers that look into this shit, and its still hosted on wiibrew even now, despite all their recent removals of many apps within the past few days (I think this is prolly my best argument, so lets bold it!)
4) probably more arguments... but #3 is enough, so I'm gonna stop typing now

 

[Skizzo]

I think you're REALLY overthinking this Shizzo.

Currently law at least in the United States for example dictates, as far as I'm aware, that it's legal to connect to someone elses unsecured wifi, but not to break into the said wifi. You have to find access points by scanning for them. Is that hacking?
First, it's Skizzo.

So you're saying that nobody has ever been arrested for sitting outside (not being a customer) of a Starbucks or another location offering free WiFi to its customers, and accessing their WiFi?

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&...-8&oe=utf-8

QUOTEUnless there is a giant difference I'm not seeing here, I don't see how accessing a web server with no mechanisms to stop a PC from getting it would be any different in the eyes of the law. In fact, connecting to an access point would be MORE extreme, if anything. Because that's accessing someone's entire network, not a remote server.

I might understand your point if Nintendo had mechanisms preventing someone from accessing the NUS from a PC, but... they don't.

But they do have mechanisms preventing someone from doing the same thing for stuff like virtual console and wiiware stuff. So, if it was really something they wanted protected, I'm pretty sure it'd be protected.

Alright fine...I'll dig through the legal code and provide it, if you promise you'll actually read it and make yourself aware of what it says.

 

[tj_cool]

XFlak & Skizzo: Fight it out in PMs please.

 

[XFlak]

I think my bolded #3 from above is enough to satisfy everyone. We all know wiibrew would never host nus downloader if it were illegal to use.

Alright fine...I'll dig through the legal code and provide it, if you promise you'll actually read it and make yourself aware of what it says.

if u are gonna start a whole legal debate about downloading shit from NUS, it definitely doesn't belong in this thread. Either PM each other, or start another thread.

I personally hope this is the last I have to hear of this super gay discussion.

PS. don't take it personally skizzo, but I've had sooooo much trouble with people hating on NUSAD that I even resorting to closing the project once already. If you want to make it twice and permanent, continue doing what u are doing (for more info on why/when I had 2 close NUSAD, see THIS... but FYI, since then, the guys who I was arguing with have proven to be good guys).

edit:
@ tj_cool, I just saw your post. Sorry about this msg, it's gonna be my last one on this topic (and oddly enough, I asked skizzo to settle it in another thread or via PM also... I'm telling u, I sound more and more like a mod each day... u should see about making it official

)

 

[s3phir0th115]

PS. don't take it personally skizzo, but I've had sooooo much trouble with people hating on NUSAD that I even resorting to closing the project once already. If you want to make it twice and permanent, continue doing what u are doing (for more info on why/when I had 2 close NUSAD, see THIS... but FYI, since then, the guys who I was arguing with have proven to be good guys).

Please don't allow his actions to govern your own. You're a better person than that.

 

[tbgtbg]

So by leaving your house unlocked you are giving permission to everyone to take everything?

It's more like you go to someone's house and they expect people to come in the front door, but instead you go around and knock at the back door. If they don't want you using the back door, it's up to them to not open it.

 

[Skizzo]

XFlak & Skizzo: Fight it out in PMs please.

Wasn't exactly looking for a 'fight', but if you say it's a fight, I guess it's a fight. Anyways, no need to do anything, I talked with my team of expert lawyers and they all said I was right, so I'm done with this.

 

[s3phir0th115]

XFlak & Skizzo: Fight it out in PMs please.

Wasn't exactly looking for a 'fight', but if you say it's a fight, I guess it's a fight. Anyways, no need to do anything, I talked with my team of expert lawyers and they all said I was right, so I'm done with this.

You seriously consulted legal advice from several lawyers about downloading Wii update files with a PC instead of a Wii?

Are you nuts? Does it really matter that much? I would think it'd be a moot point enough if Nintendo wouldn't pursue it.

Also, lawyer logic isn't really something I'd advise following. These are the same people that would try to deny the halocaust to protect a Nazi from being arrested for murder.

 

[XFlak]

Hey guys, did u know that "HBC to use IOS58"?????????????????????????????

(I just thought this thread could use a reality check)

 

[Skizzo]

XFlak & Skizzo: Fight it out in PMs please.

Wasn't exactly looking for a 'fight', but if you say it's a fight, I guess it's a fight. Anyways, no need to do anything, I talked with my team of expert lawyers and they all said I was right, so I'm done with this.

You seriously consulted legal advice from several lawyers about downloading Wii update files with a PC instead of a Wii?

Are you nuts? Does it really matter that much? I would think it'd be a moot point enough if Nintendo wouldn't pursue it.

Also, lawyer logic isn't really something I'd advise following. These are the same people that would try to deny the halocaust to protect a Nazi from being arrested for murder.

Please stop fighting with me in public.

But yes, yes I did. I have a team of expert lawyers on retainer, so why not put those 'halocaust' denying, Nazi loving, murderer defending POS's to work whenever I can?

Off to download IOS58 and update HBC!

 

[d3monsting]

1.0.8 is out! And I installed the one IOS thing! So the creator of this thingy knew about 1.0.8? hehe
EDIT: Oh... new thread then...

 

[Bladexdsl]

use this thread now: http://gbatemp.net/t248245-hbc-1-0-8-update