I will provide you with a yes or no answer if you can answer my question first, a big hint is the answer is a natural number (counting number: 1,2,3,4,5,6.....).
How many laws are there?
How many laws are there?
Wow, most of you people don't know anything about IP law. Here are some answers that assume you're in the US:
Modding consoles is LEGAL, whether it is your own or someone else's you are modding for a fee. Installing a modchip WILL void your warranty, but is not a crime. Installing unlicensed software (ie, homebrew) can also void your warranty, though if you can restore your system to a pristine state (via a NAND dump or just uninstalling everything) it's unlikely that Nintendo will find out or care. It is also perfectly legal for Nintendo to revoke your ability to use their services (eg, repair services, Wii Shop, online multiplayer servers, etc) if they detect any modifications, hardware or software. If you are doing this for money, you should make sure your customers are aware of all of this.
Caveat to the above: under the DMCA, if you mod your console for the purposes of bypassing copy protection schemes, that is ILLEGAL. However, this is murky because the same modifications that allow you to illegally play pirated discs also allow you to run legal software. If you're not interested in piracy and your customers don't specifically mention it, then you probably don't have to worry about this.
Running homebrew is LEGAL. Selling homebrew is LEGAL as long as you abide by the license (as mentioned above, if the software is GPL licensed you must follow the GPL's requirement to make the modified source available OR link to the original source). However, this is very much frowned upon by the community, so you shouldn't do it anyway. If you wrote the software from scratch, or only using code with unrestrictive licenses, you are free to sell it.
Making backups of games you own is LEGAL. As part of fair use copyright law you are allowed to make one backup for archival purposes. You cannot sell this copy to anyone, you cannot even lend it to someone. If you ever sell the original copy you must destroy the backup. If the original is destroyed or stolen, you may continue to use the backup as if it were the original. It's not clear how the DMCA's restriction against bypassing copyright protection influences this, but from what I've read fair use rights trump the DMCA.
Making "backups" of games you don't own, or rented, or borrowed from a friend is ILLEGAL. That's piracy. It doesn't matter if you only downloaded a game to see if it's worth buying and delete it afterward. The only reason people around here call all disc copies "backups" is because real backups are legal while pirated copies are illegal.
Emulators are LEGAL. However, in order to use them you need ROMs, which are covered by the same rules as game backups. If you own a game, you are allowed to make a copy of THAT GAME (meaning, no, you cannot just go download the same file from the internet even if you have the disc/cart/whatever in your hand) and use that copy with your emulator. Same rules apply: only one copy, no sharing, you must destroy the copy if you sell the original game.
Modding consoles is LEGAL, whether it is your own or someone else's you are modding for a fee. Installing a modchip WILL void your warranty, but is not a crime. Installing unlicensed software (ie, homebrew) can also void your warranty, though if you can restore your system to a pristine state (via a NAND dump or just uninstalling everything) it's unlikely that Nintendo will find out or care. It is also perfectly legal for Nintendo to revoke your ability to use their services (eg, repair services, Wii Shop, online multiplayer servers, etc) if they detect any modifications, hardware or software. If you are doing this for money, you should make sure your customers are aware of all of this.
Caveat to the above: under the DMCA, if you mod your console for the purposes of bypassing copy protection schemes, that is ILLEGAL. However, this is murky because the same modifications that allow you to illegally play pirated discs also allow you to run legal software. If you're not interested in piracy and your customers don't specifically mention it, then you probably don't have to worry about this.
Running homebrew is LEGAL. Selling homebrew is LEGAL as long as you abide by the license (as mentioned above, if the software is GPL licensed you must follow the GPL's requirement to make the modified source available OR link to the original source). However, this is very much frowned upon by the community, so you shouldn't do it anyway. If you wrote the software from scratch, or only using code with unrestrictive licenses, you are free to sell it.
Making backups of games you own is LEGAL. As part of fair use copyright law you are allowed to make one backup for archival purposes. You cannot sell this copy to anyone, you cannot even lend it to someone. If you ever sell the original copy you must destroy the backup. If the original is destroyed or stolen, you may continue to use the backup as if it were the original. It's not clear how the DMCA's restriction against bypassing copyright protection influences this, but from what I've read fair use rights trump the DMCA.
Making "backups" of games you don't own, or rented, or borrowed from a friend is ILLEGAL. That's piracy. It doesn't matter if you only downloaded a game to see if it's worth buying and delete it afterward. The only reason people around here call all disc copies "backups" is because real backups are legal while pirated copies are illegal.
Emulators are LEGAL. However, in order to use them you need ROMs, which are covered by the same rules as game backups. If you own a game, you are allowed to make a copy of THAT GAME (meaning, no, you cannot just go download the same file from the internet even if you have the disc/cart/whatever in your hand) and use that copy with your emulator. Same rules apply: only one copy, no sharing, you must destroy the copy if you sell the original game.
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Last I looked, backups were legal as long as you own the original, and they are personal use only (don't give them to friends, sell them, etc.). If you sell the original, legally the backups should go with it or be disposed of. Playing them however often means violating the DMCA.
It's technically illegal to softmod or hard-mod Wiis in the USA. Thing is, you can still buy chips over here in the USA, and no one gives a crap if you do. Same goes for softmods. If you use one, no one will care unless you pirate.
Individuals who are busted are usually busted for copyright infringement due to piracy, not for DRM hacking. There have been cases for DRM hacking, but they are few and far between when you consider the number of copyright infringement cases.
I'm not sure about emulators, but I don't see why they would be illegal. The ROMs typically are illegal.
EDIT: Dang, ultimatt42 wrote an essay while I was posting....
EDIT2:
Finished reading ultimatt42's post.. While technically illegal, casual copying is going to be something that is likely unstoppable. Also, you don't have to necessarily destroy the backup when you sell, it likely could be included with the original. As long as you don't keep a copy yourself when you sell...
As for ROMs, old games in cartridges cannot be copied yourself without specialized (and expensive) hardware. So, while technically illegal, everyone downloads them anyway to get the backup copy. Besides, since the game data on every piece of media is the same, telling the source of such ROMs would be virtually impossible by just looking at the data.
It's technically illegal to softmod or hard-mod Wiis in the USA. Thing is, you can still buy chips over here in the USA, and no one gives a crap if you do. Same goes for softmods. If you use one, no one will care unless you pirate.
Individuals who are busted are usually busted for copyright infringement due to piracy, not for DRM hacking. There have been cases for DRM hacking, but they are few and far between when you consider the number of copyright infringement cases.
I'm not sure about emulators, but I don't see why they would be illegal. The ROMs typically are illegal.
EDIT: Dang, ultimatt42 wrote an essay while I was posting....
EDIT2:
Finished reading ultimatt42's post.. While technically illegal, casual copying is going to be something that is likely unstoppable. Also, you don't have to necessarily destroy the backup when you sell, it likely could be included with the original. As long as you don't keep a copy yourself when you sell...
As for ROMs, old games in cartridges cannot be copied yourself without specialized (and expensive) hardware. So, while technically illegal, everyone downloads them anyway to get the backup copy. Besides, since the game data on every piece of media is the same, telling the source of such ROMs would be virtually impossible by just looking at the data.
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Agreed.Digital1980 said:
I buy my disc games, but at least want to know they're something worth playing, so I download, play part of them, if they suck delete them and don't buy. If they're good, I buy when I get the money. If they want to reduce piracy, they really should give away demos of disc games. Those WiiWare Demos that came out on Shop Channel recently were a start.
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Using the wii strictly for homebrew is NOT illegal. Using it to load backups, or copyrighted content, however is very illegal.
Also, charging someone to mod their wii, unless youre installing a mod chip, is not illegal, but very wrong imo.
Also, charging someone to mod their wii, unless youre installing a mod chip, is not illegal, but very wrong imo.
Installing HBC and DVDx and BootMii is completely legal. However, a lot of homebrew is actually illegal, even non-warez stuff, because it is built with libogc, which has a bit of official copyrighted code in it. Warez crap depends on your country to determine the legality. ALL MINI (i.e. BootMii) homebrew is legal, because there IS no official SDK for it, so all SDK code MUST be custom written (Official Ninty SDK is for IOS, not MINI obviously).
So at the moment, a lot of homebrew is illegal. HackMii Installer is not, as I believe TT didn't use libogc for it. Or something. But I'm pretty sure its legal. Any apps made for BootMii are/will be legal. Most IOS homebrew (i.e. homebrew you launch via HBC) is illegal.
So at the moment, a lot of homebrew is illegal. HackMii Installer is not, as I believe TT didn't use libogc for it. Or something. But I'm pretty sure its legal. Any apps made for BootMii are/will be legal. Most IOS homebrew (i.e. homebrew you launch via HBC) is illegal.
http://hbc.hackmii.com/credits/
"The Homebrew Channel is powered by devkitPPC by WinterMute and libOGC by shagkur & others!"
"The Homebrew Channel is powered by devkitPPC by WinterMute and libOGC by shagkur & others!"
well the answers for Australians is
1 - No, and i doubt other companies will try again since SONY got squashed.
2 - No, we have legitimate mod shops we can go to
also TOS are never LAW
1 - No, and i doubt other companies will try again since SONY got squashed.
2 - No, we have legitimate mod shops we can go to
also TOS are never LAW
Bladexdsl said:nintendo classifies any homebrew, backup launchers ,usb programs or anything NOT made or endorsed by them are illegal and will void your warranty.
but who gives a fuck
+1,000,000
1. Modding a Wii AFAIK is legal, however, playing backups, even for your own use is illegal. You are not allowed to duplicate, in part or in whole, copyrighted data.
2. I believe it is fine to mod someone else's Wii. To my knowledge you can mod your own hardware anyway you want, but you may be subject to banning, warranty cancellation, etc. as this violates terms of conditions for those items. You cross the line as soon as any copyrighted data is copied.
2. I believe it is fine to mod someone else's Wii. To my knowledge you can mod your own hardware anyway you want, but you may be subject to banning, warranty cancellation, etc. as this violates terms of conditions for those items. You cross the line as soon as any copyrighted data is copied.
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In the US, I think it's legal to charge someone to mod their Wii with homebrew only. I'd think it becomes illegal as soon as you bring the backup loaders in because that's ultimately what's illegal: software that circumvents the DRM and violates the DMCA.
As far as Craigslist goes, I flag ads that lie to people: modding DOES void the warranty and IS illegal, plus I'm sure most modders out there will either disappear or charge the person again to update their Wii to the latest and greatest firmware when they come crying that X New Game doesn't work and all their old game don't work anymore.
Am I a hater? Probably. I shouldn't get pissed off about people making money off people too stupid to mod their Wiis or don't want to bother learning how to do it themselves for free with information on Teh Interwebz, but I do. The blatant lying pisses me off more.
As far as Craigslist goes, I flag ads that lie to people: modding DOES void the warranty and IS illegal, plus I'm sure most modders out there will either disappear or charge the person again to update their Wii to the latest and greatest firmware when they come crying that X New Game doesn't work and all their old game don't work anymore.
Am I a hater? Probably. I shouldn't get pissed off about people making money off people too stupid to mod their Wiis or don't want to bother learning how to do it themselves for free with information on Teh Interwebz, but I do. The blatant lying pisses me off more.
Both are legal in Sweden.
1) You are allowed to create backups of your personal copies, its sort of even illegal to have copy protection but no one has bother to try to go to court with it. Why I say so? You are ALLOWED to make a backup copy but the copy protection makes it harder to do it.
2) You are not allowed to take payment for others software without their permission, example HBC.
But you are allowed to charge for your time it takes.
1) You are allowed to create backups of your personal copies, its sort of even illegal to have copy protection but no one has bother to try to go to court with it. Why I say so? You are ALLOWED to make a backup copy but the copy protection makes it harder to do it.
2) You are not allowed to take payment for others software without their permission, example HBC.
But you are allowed to charge for your time it takes.
just like picking up a hooker..it's illegal to pay for the sex, but it's 100% legal to pay for the "massage" she gave you before the sex!!!
I am actually amazed about how this thread hasn't lead into a screaming contest (yet), kudos to that. However, there is still much hearsay spread here, allow me to correct a few points.
First of all, the generic answer to the generic original questions is: "Probably yes." Most of the world's countries have adopted the WIPO Copyright Treaty that most prominently lead to the DMCA (and from there to parts of the AUSFTA) the EUCD, and the WCT/WPPT. Under those provisions, any modifications that circumvent a technical protection measure (TPM) are rendered illegal.
Sweden amended their copyright legislation to include the EUCD provisions on July 1, 2005.
And then ... there's Australia. A sore point for everyone who ever got into a serious discussion about modchip legality. First of all: Australia never declared modchips legal, not a specific one and certainly not modchips in general. That's only what the news reported, and all of them oversimplified the 2005 High Court decision, noone ever bothered to read the ruling's text, they all deducted their news from the outcome.
In 2005, in the Sony v. Owen case, the Australian High Court ruled that the Playstation's copyright protection hardware is not a Technical Protection Mechanism (TPM). In consequence, a Playstation modchip would not circumvent a TPM, so anti-circumvention laws would not apply to this modchip on this system. They were very specific in the wording of their ruling, even including a passage saying the ruling would not apply to modchips in general but only to this very specific case.
But that was 2005. Not a year later, in 2006, Australia amended its Australian Copyright Act, changed the definition of TPM, introduced the concept of an ACTPM, and reiterated on the illegality of circumventing either one. In effect, Australia has closed the loophole that allowed the 2005 court decision, under 2006 law, the court would have had to rule differently. So anyone who still claims that modchips are legal in Australia is either talking about some very specific modchip that will not allow game copies to run but only circumvents region lockout ... or he's quoting outdated and oversimplified information.
Of course, there are countries where there's simply no anti-circumvention legislature yet. And in those who do, court cases are rare. Many modchip dealers and installers operate illegally, flying under the radar, as long as noone complains. Thas is not a statement about legality, though, keep that in mind.
First of all, the generic answer to the generic original questions is: "Probably yes." Most of the world's countries have adopted the WIPO Copyright Treaty that most prominently lead to the DMCA (and from there to parts of the AUSFTA) the EUCD, and the WCT/WPPT. Under those provisions, any modifications that circumvent a technical protection measure (TPM) are rendered illegal.
Sweden amended their copyright legislation to include the EUCD provisions on July 1, 2005.
And then ... there's Australia. A sore point for everyone who ever got into a serious discussion about modchip legality. First of all: Australia never declared modchips legal, not a specific one and certainly not modchips in general. That's only what the news reported, and all of them oversimplified the 2005 High Court decision, noone ever bothered to read the ruling's text, they all deducted their news from the outcome.
In 2005, in the Sony v. Owen case, the Australian High Court ruled that the Playstation's copyright protection hardware is not a Technical Protection Mechanism (TPM). In consequence, a Playstation modchip would not circumvent a TPM, so anti-circumvention laws would not apply to this modchip on this system. They were very specific in the wording of their ruling, even including a passage saying the ruling would not apply to modchips in general but only to this very specific case.
But that was 2005. Not a year later, in 2006, Australia amended its Australian Copyright Act, changed the definition of TPM, introduced the concept of an ACTPM, and reiterated on the illegality of circumventing either one. In effect, Australia has closed the loophole that allowed the 2005 court decision, under 2006 law, the court would have had to rule differently. So anyone who still claims that modchips are legal in Australia is either talking about some very specific modchip that will not allow game copies to run but only circumvents region lockout ... or he's quoting outdated and oversimplified information.
Of course, there are countries where there's simply no anti-circumvention legislature yet. And in those who do, court cases are rare. Many modchip dealers and installers operate illegally, flying under the radar, as long as noone complains. Thas is not a statement about legality, though, keep that in mind.
Sorry, they are not, and haven't been for a long time. Denmark adopted the EUCD in March of 2003. Don't take my word for it, here's the Danish Consolidated Act on Copyright 2003 (official English translation), see chapter 6 a, paragraphs 75b ff.Skarnet said:
I also advertise on craigslist.I specifically mention that i do not sell any games whatsoever.
Someone emailed today saying he had reported me to the FBI cyber crimes unit and provided me the link as well.
EDIT:
I emailed the other local craiglist modders in my area that i could find.They all told me they got the exact same email pretty much
and that it is just someone who's probably pissed that other people are modding and taking away his business.
Using the email address the guy used who "reported" me i did happen to find his phone # and name and address as well as all of his craigslist postings but i didn't see any that were about modding.Guy is just probably pissed he can't do it himself or he's made all his stupid zhu zhu pets are selling for $30+ a piece like he is asking because now all stores are flooded with them going for $8-$10 as well as online stores and even ebay are now are normal retail prices on zhu zhu pets.
Someone emailed today saying he had reported me to the FBI cyber crimes unit and provided me the link as well.
EDIT:
I emailed the other local craiglist modders in my area that i could find.They all told me they got the exact same email pretty much
and that it is just someone who's probably pissed that other people are modding and taking away his business.
Using the email address the guy used who "reported" me i did happen to find his phone # and name and address as well as all of his craigslist postings but i didn't see any that were about modding.Guy is just probably pissed he can't do it himself or he's made all his stupid zhu zhu pets are selling for $30+ a piece like he is asking because now all stores are flooded with them going for $8-$10 as well as online stores and even ebay are now are normal retail prices on zhu zhu pets.
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