The media is creating mass hysteria over the Coronavirus.

[ghjfdtg]

I'm not saying i don't care about anyone else. Just you have no reason to panic if you are not at risk. No one wants to get infected and no one is infecting people on purpose (at least i hope so). Sorry if that came across as selfish. Life must go on with or without the virus

 

[slaphappygamer]

If Donald has his walls built, we should all be safe and fancy with the walls. He should sign an executive order to complete them as fast as he can think about it. Oh wait.....

 

[Cylent1]

Here it is in a nutshell....

 

[Xzi]

From what I've seen, the media coverage has actually been pretty measured on average. The issue hasn't so much been the quality of their coverage, but rather the quantity of it. We only need one hour a day at most for coronavirus updates, but on cable they've got 24 hours to fill, and they seem to think 22 of those hours should be dedicated solely to COVID-19.

The cause of the panic isn't limited to the media, either. People are well aware that our country's leadership is asleep at the wheel, and that they've already fumbled the response to this outbreak in several ways. Going on national TV and contradicting health experts is certainly not helpful by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[IncredulousP]

People are well aware that our country's leadership is asleep at the wheel, and that they've already fumbled the response to this outbreak in several ways. Going on national TV and contradicting health experts is certainly not helpful by any stretch of the imagination.

Hey, hopes and hunches are just as powerful if not more reliable than what a bunch of "scientists" say.

 

[notimp]

Here it is in a nutshell....

View attachment 199174

Slight problem.

Its hyped all over the world. Asia. Europe. Middle East. Australia. Russia.

We dont have an election.

Doctors are dumb as well.

If 4% of the world population could die, you have to somehow warn/prime people as well.

If Doctor wants to ignore, that 25% of all people over 80 might die because of it, its fine with me - but hopefully not with "media". You cant just leave them (people over 80) out of the picture.

And if you havent heard that 25% death probability figure in people over 80 (in some scenarios, depends on spread) yet, thats because media doesnt want you to panic. (Oh what, they do act that respnsible, huh, who would have thought.)

Also - every election has a pandemic, is kind of a very odd crackpot position to hold. Change your doctor. Probably.
-

I think its time for a rant again. (#toughlove)

PEOPLE ARE dumb, mindless DRONES

They go with whatever political accusation, that their twitter feed tells them to go with. They copy opinions. (Thats part of what makes societies work. You all are social beings. That can be very concerned at times. (*dramatic chipmunk*))

Effing republicans of the tea party brand of crazy, can play the f*ck media stereotype on any issue, where media 'profits' (sells more papers, gets more clicks), because of peoples irrationality (people hear people dead, and buy paper - media knows that), without any repercussions.

But thats not the medias fault. Thats stupid, stupid, stupid humans fault. No one is forcing you to click on those headlines, you still all do.

Media is not, and never was, and never will be - a purely rational representation of actual risks in society. You all would hate it, if it was. You wouldnt care the effing least if it was.

But for some kind of politicians, its so f*cking easy to tell you - you are those perfect little embodiments of rational, just, moral human beings - that those bad, bad media people following market rational (what sells), brainwash their puney little brains out.

While at the same time, the same politicians, treat you as insanely irrational and herd based dumb, whenever they want something from you. Hey people - maybe dont get rid of media, if then you still get manipulated by assanine logic - but without media to offset that. (It never was about one becoming pure and good, its about media looking politics over, and legal system media, and politics being able to create laws. Its layered that way. Politics isnt supposed to influence media (censor it, make it self censor).)

Also while we are at it, you got that "this was in doctors office" picture off of instagram, tiktok, or twitter, didnt you? Someone with a whiteboard made it. Must have been a doctor, obviously. I say that - because in my parts of the world, it is not an obvious thing for a physician to spread "every election year a manufactured epidemic" insanity (as if epidemics (pandemics) cared about US outcome only).

Which brings us to Costco. None of tha media (conventional) told you to stuck up on goods.

It was f*cking zombie TV shows, and neglected spouses that needed approval in their lives, that made you go there. Do you now seriously suggest, that media should play your daddy and helicopter mommy, to prevent you from that as well - by starting to self censor, because OBVIOUSLY humanity in the US cant handle that stuff?

There is an easy way out of this you know? Acknowledge, that media has a self serving interest to hype life and death stories a little out of proportion (what your nightly mass murder mysteries reality tv shows didn't teach you that?), take about 30% of the hype off - and live a happy life. While at the same time, demand based, making the media system better with your behavior.

That too much for you?

And then again. You dont get mass panics, because of media, you get it because of masses. They are mass behavior. Look at what happens at black friday. I dont see people blaiming the ads there. No there it was just a fun "adventure" to take part in one of those, and every one laughs it off, even if people are killed.

None of conventional media should have told you to stock up on food rations. Makes no sense. That was all people on their own.

And if for some reason some radio shock jockey told you to do so - boot him. He/shes an idiot. Dont blame that on media.


BUT.

The more likely rational, again, as with 90% of the threads in this forum, always - is that you are 'very concerned about' whatéver the teaparty is feeding you as a talking point, at any time. No matter how dumb it is.

So lets explain this again.

Populist politicians dont need conventional media. (If they havent established absolutist systems, where they control it, yet.) They have their own 'down at the voter level' organizing systems, twitter, their own fringe media outlets, and a very good understanding what insane theories spread, if they play the concern card, triggering irrational behavior. And furthermore. On any case, where the media acts 'self serving' (wants to sell more), they dont have to expect much pushback from more rational people - because yes, media to a point is overplaying the issue here.

BUT that doesnt mean - that if you bully media out of the occasion everything becomes magically better here. How you fix this is still - you not behaving like dumb f*cks, when entering Costco, or this forum.

But you never quite seem to get that point. Its always the other side thats responsible for humanities stupid behavior issues. And thats just factually wrong.

And what doctor above has written on whiteboard, doesnt matter much, if that individual is still more stupid, than I am. Dont roll with "trust in authority", if authority just means, has a white board, a white coat, and an instagram account. Dont be that idiot. (Think for yourselves at times.)

You've been baited again. (Now if this would have been a doctors association, different story - but it hasnt been, has it? You just picked a (small) conspiracy story off of twitter again.)

edit: "But why cant we make media censor themselves better? So that this kind of stuff doesnt happen anymore?" Because other, and more bad stuff happens if you start to put in top down censorship structures, and frankly, media also has to make money somehow. So overhyping something/their own importance is always kind of part of it, as it is in all market based economies.

Social media story telling is still dumber and more problematic though. Because it doesnt rely on being vetted (no one cares about the good name of "some twitter account", if their story OMG - it spreads, thats the whole point of 'going viral'). And it drives faster news cycles (OMG have you heard!) that prevent stories from being vetted. If you only rely on those stories all getting debunked after the fact - you are dead in the water, because "fact check" rebuttals spread about 10-20% the amount of the original OMG story on social - and the people who write those for living become depressed little husks of their former selfs within three years, because they deal with human rational failing all the time. So dont rely on this being a new default you can run with. Especially not as no one is paying for journalism (some rich dude might).

The underlying issue still is and always will be, that you gave away better data to "service that we send grandma her grandchildren pics over - and where I hooked up a few times in the past" than to media, thereby ruining their economics. Then grandma pic service copied some news article from the internets, and you all conflated it for "media". Then you never quite realized how surfacing algorithms work (OMG is top ten quite often, because it catches people that are genuinely intrigued, and those that want to read it to then complain about it, and those who just are victims to clicking on emotional charged words, and it spreads faster - because it reads like you might have missed something important) on social media, and now you complain about them - but still by degrading media (fake news, ..).

None of that makes any sense. If you want better twitter feeds, or youtube recommendations, pester those companies. Just because they dont react, doesnt mean, that you can now blame media for it.

And most importantly - if you dont pay money for media, your opinion doesnt count. If you say you are rational, but your clicking behavior isnt. No one in the advertising business will care. (Media might also be 'in the advertising business' if they become mainly ad financed. You have to prevent that on your own. Facebook or Google wont help you here.)

edit2: Oh and why are conservatives concerned? Because you will, irrationally, blame the current administration for everything epidemic related. Voter approval numbers will fall for the current administration, because of the epidemic. (And how it is handled.) So if you say, media just lying - everything handled A+ ok, that might prevent some scares that could cost votes.

No need for 'tha liberal media is taking me Trump away' shortcuts in thinking. Its all a little more complex and at the same time a little less exciting.

 

[Taleweaver]

*sigh*
The media? Not quite. Fellow residents? All the more (at least here in Belgium).
Thus far I don't see people panicking or going haywire, but there's a chance it'll happen soon. The day before yesterday, I was asked (or rather: 'we' of ICT, but I was the only one in the office) whether it was possible if we could all work from home. There's certainly a possibility that that'll happen soon, as in the office building (9 floors, only one of us habitated by our company) there's a rumor that "two people with symptoms were spotted" on one of the other companies. It's a bit stupid if you ask me (symptoms? It's pretty rainy...you can quarantine Belgium if every person coughing is a suspect ), but we're getting at a point where objectivity gets threatened by a "what if?".

Furthermore: we get regular mails that we should take sanitation regulations into account, locally famous persons interrupt commercials telling us to wash our hands, and so on.

But the only real threat I see is the economical one. My sector's heavily influenced by tourism (heck...half our profit comes from the airport), so it's a rough time because of that. Probably not as bad as the Zaventem bombings for Belgium, but as a multinational we're heavily impacted by the situation in other countries (ahem...Italy) as well.

I think people are taking it upon themselves to build trumps wall.

The way the US handles it, perhaps the Mexicans will be building (and paying for it!) after all! Better keep those loco's out of Mehico, eh?

 

[notimp]

I now have all the relevant parts for a congruent story.

Want to hear them?

With COVID-19

People are infectious for days, even before they show the first symptoms.

Which means that spread prevention by telling them "go to the doctor" doesnt work (still go to the doctor anyhow, because you will then get an info sheet (preventing faster spread afterwards) and 'treatment'

It probably isnt stopped by warm weather either (although infection rates might slow down).

The virus is airborn, stays in the air for multiple minutes, and isnt hugely more infectious depending on if you touch your face less, or wash your hands less often

Which means that between 40-70% of mankind are expected to get infected (by some estimates - could be less) (It makes a difference though if 'this year' or 'over ten years'.)

Because all of that means, that infection will only stop, if you have enough people already having resistance built up (by already having been infected and their immune systems having dealt with the virus (because currently there is no vaccination)), that transmission tides down.

The good (and also bad) news is, that most people will show only slight symptoms (not get pneumonia), but still be highly infectious, while they have it.

All of which is also why (in combination with the disease being airborn (not just mukus) chirurgical masks dont work (Only some masks which are fully sealing, please dont hord them, people in the medical systems need them, they are in short supply and suppliers cant crank production up as quickly as needed).

All measures employed are mostly there to slow down the spread, which means more hospital beds (and respirators) available for patients that become really sick (only a small part of everyone who gets infected).

Washing hands or disinfecting them doesnt work so good on an airborn disease either, but it helps against other infections that might impact your immune system, and it is something you can do. So do it.

Deathrate is estimated at about 3.2 to 3.5% no one knows all the factors, we have to wait and see.

Death rates among old people that are infected are at around 25% if they are 85 years and older.

Obesity, diabetes and high blood pressure also are risk factors, so take your blood pressure medication. (Also yes, we know, many people have high blood preassure, death rate still only at 3.2- 3.5%, calm down.) If you have any preexisting condition that might not have you get over pneumonia as fast as the average person, thats a risk factor, being over 65, and then increasingly, over 80 is as well.

Children this time around arent especially affected by that type of virus (no higher risk profile), but they are good carriers. Pregnant women arent either.

Closing venues down (schools, ..) only helps to slow down spread. (So more hospital beds are available, basically.)

And social fallout will start, when people start to see that the medical system has a hard time dealing with cases, because of equipment or personal shortages.

So all politics can really do is try to slow it down. To make the harsh outcomes (from systems being overtaxed) less likely.

We are in the beginning of it.

Y'all have fun.

And dont panic. Life will go on regardless.

It has to, overall death rate isnt too outrageous, you dont grow pimples while you are at it (just flu symptoms and pneumonia), so people socially can deal with it, if you inform them whats happening.

Two prior forms of coronaviros (SARS and MERS) were easier to deal with, because with SARS you could stop certain contagion paths, and with MERS people only were infectious after they started to show systems, so you could isolate them easier.

Stop blaming tha media on this one.

Some of that information comes from an epidemiology expert (Michael Osterholm) on Joe Rogan. You can watch the interview if you want ( h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw ), some of it from a vireologist of the Charité Berlin (Christian Drosten) (src: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/info/podcast4684.html (german, sadly).

Now you know pretty much all of it there is to know (colloquially), the question still is though - does it make you feel better?
And what part of it didn't you want to know - so did (just conventional) media handle whatever they told you responsibly? Did they show restraint? (Imho - yes, they did.)

edit: Secondary infection deaths (so dying of a different disease, while having COVID-19, because of COVID-19) this time around are low as well. So honing down on some of them this time around also doesnt make much sense.

 

[notimp]

But the only real threat I see is the economical one. My sector's heavily influenced by tourism (heck...half our profit comes from the airport), so it's a rough time because of that.

State should be on that as well (they are in europe). Grants are being rolled out, to help tourism and gastronomy to get over it. But issues also affect the global supply base, which is why you have a global economic downturn.

China is said to disassemble mobile crisis centers as we speak (because rate of new infections has come down), so a 'sense of normalcy' will come back eventually. (Even if the virus is expected to spread more harshly, once that is expected to happen. And it always is.)

 

[notimp]

Also, the US probably will not see school shutdowns (as a measure to prevent fast spreads), because not only do they have no sick leave, they dont have any equivalent social structures that could have anyone but schools dealing with their children, while their parents are at work. As a result you'll probably get a faster spread and a higher shortage of treatment slots overall.

Which means 'not telling people much of it' is a pretty good idea over there. Because there is not much you can tell them to actively try to do.

Which brings us back to media maybe not wanting to pick up on all the stories, oddly enough.

Because they cant even really encourage people to self quarantine over there.

If you want to have some fun, keep an eye out for if and when Canada closes schools. Or provinces.
(Currently the outbreak there isnt vast enough to warrant it, see: https://www.cbc.ca/news/coronavirus-schools-canada-case-1.5488236 )
-


edit: WHO disagrees on COVID-19 being airborn (Why do you then close down open air mass events? Why do you then have multiple experts say it is? Why are you then only qualifying certain tight sealing masks as effective protection?) and says infection paths are mukus based.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

In which case washing your hands, often, becomes a much better idea.

This is me just covering for - idk, the Joe Rogan "expert" not knowing what they were talking about?

Wash your hands.

(Here you have the WHO saying it is airborn. https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...ference-11feb2020-final.pdf?sfvrsn=e2019136_2

Take a pick.. ?))

edit: More info on airborn or not?

Airborn for 30 min and up to 4.5 metres.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...vel-twice-far-official-safe-distance-and-stay

*Hachooo* Bless you.

edit2: And the study has been retracted from the chinese medical journal without a reason given. Great. (see article.)

Probably airborn then?

edit: BBC says NHS believes that "probably not airborn" and 15 min of close proximity (1-2m) to an infected person are needed for an infection. At the same time, studies have shown massive contamination within even a few minutes in cleanrooms.
src: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51736185

Eh, yes?

Hey, this is getting fun..

edit: While we are at it: Death rates are at 0.7% in Germany and at 5% in Italy. (Of people that where tested positively (that got it)) So more testing availability will be needed to find out where it falls in the end. Somewhere between in 4x and 17x of a bad years flu epidemic.

edit: Austrian virologist criticizing the Austrian governments for school closures (you dont want to have your kids be cared for by your grandparents, when the epidemic is going, remember ), also tells media that COVID-19 is airborn. Which also has a good side to it, because summer might slow down the spread, by virtue of less people being in smaller contained rooms. (Doesnt kill the virus though.. ) Or not.

So let me just call it and say - the virologist on Joe Rogan was informed enough. Assessment in the first 'this the complete story' posting should hold up.

 

[notimp]

Mortality in Wuhan was 5% (of the people tested positively) but in the regions surrounding it (rural) 0.7% (after containment measures already were taken), mortality rate in South Korea is 0.6% and in germany its 0.7% as well. In italy it also was around 5% but there are reports that the health system was 'highly stressed' by the outbreak. (And it probably was spreading uncontrolled (without any containment measures) for quite a while).

In countries surrounding italy now measures are taken to stop (slow down) the early exponential doubling rate of new infections, which as a result should mean a slower progression, that then can be more controlled, that then can lead to a lower mortality rate.

Thats (indicative of) good news.

(Info from Anne Will (referencing WHO taskforce numbers, and official german numbers).)
src: https://daserste.ndr.de/annewill/index.html (german)

In terms of severeness. In Germany about 80% of people that have the virus, can be self quarantined, because of only minor symptoms. (That should give you an indication of how prevalent symptoms are, before they become critical. (Not meaning that 20% have critical symptoms - but then are more closely tracked. In germany only about 1% of cases so far have become critical cases - while in italy the rate was much higher, we dont know why yet.))

 

[Plasmaster09]

as someone whose school has temporarily closed because of all this until at least the 20th, I... have realized that around 80% of the actual problem here is everyone freaking out, the US practically becoming a PVP server and people hoarding (and even sometimes SCALPING, the heartless f*cks) hygiene supplies that have become precious resources.
The actual virus is less of a problem than everyone going batshit insane over it. Not to say the virus isn't a problem, but the reactions are WORSE.

 

[notimp]

Human behavior, cant do much about it.

The good news is, that - if the contagion path is also active from airborn infection its really almost exclusively about slowing down rate of infection, and not so much "infection in general" (numbers).

And if its mostly mukus related, washing your hands with soap for 20 seconds should be about as affective as using disinfectants. (Do it multiple times a day.)

Also - the main issue (while people also might be hoarding) is demand spike and small storage facilities. So it should be more of an issue of aggregate behavior change.

That people are skalping, is normal. But again - none of 'one specific good' should be so important, that you absolutely need it. Its more that people perceive them as very valuable currently.

 

[Plasmaster09]

Human behavior, cant do much about it.

The good news is, that - if the contagion path is also active from airborn infection its really almost exclusively about slowing down rate of infection, and not so much "infection in general" (numbers).

And if its mostly mukus related, washing your hands with soap for 20 seconds should be about as affective as using disinfectants. (Do it multiple times a day.)

Also - the main issue (while people also might be hoarding) is demand spike and small storage facilities. So it should be more of an issue of aggregate behavior change.

That people are skalping, is normal. But again - none of 'one specific good' should be so important, that you absolutely need it. Its more that people perceive them as very valuable currently.

Still not really an excuse- it may be "normal", but it's still horrible, and in a time like this it borders on downright EVIL.

 

[notimp]

Ah, but most humans are capable of behaving "evil" if surrounding conditions change. Not an excuse, just is. (*joyfullresignation* in tone ) Still sorry, that you had to witness it.

 

[Plasmaster09]

Ah, but most humans are capable of behaving "evil" if surrounding conditions change. Not an excuse, just is. (*joyfullresignation* in tone ) Still sorry, that you had to witness it.

yeah
they should still stop though

 

[mattytrog]

Mattytrogs official advice...

If anyone has Coronavirus, they are to self-isolate at Greta Thunbergs house.

 

[Plasmaster09]

Mattytrogs official advice...

If anyone has Coronavirus, they are to self-isolate at Greta Thunbergs house.

I see someone doesn't like activism much

 

[Flame]

people are dying left and right. but its hysteria...

• has no treatment
• has no vaccine
• Spreads very efficiently
• Has already caused medical capacity to be exceeded in places like China and Italy

normally i would say don't leave your house cause of the coronavirus. but in some of your cases you should. video games have made you robot. Life is just a game.

 

[notimp]

In italy the official line is "has not lead to us having had to made those tough decisions yet" (in terms of when to turn people away from life sustaining measures.). But there are reports out there, where in the most affected regions, personal has worked day and night and the whole hospital has turned over to "corona center" ("everyone was working on this"), and then you look at mortality numbers, and... the rest is interpretation.

China helped out italy as well, sent over 1000 respiratory devices, so again - its likely that they where overwhelmed (in some regions).

But it seems - if you can handle the influx, the mortality might not be that high. If you cant it is (that 3-5% number).

And all indications for the US (in terms of what it can do to slow it down) arent "excellent".

The rest of the world can send people on a coordinated two week break, and have people go on sick leave (self isolate, once they have it) - while the US has very limited ways of trying to extend the early doubling period in that growth curve, comparatively. (Everyone is canceling huge stadion events and exhibitions f.e.).

Earliest time for a vaccine is probably two years from now (one if we get very lucky). And there is no known treatment currently. (The way the virus can enter the lungs is known, and maybe adressed by a medicament licensed in Japan, clinical tests are on the way.)

But all of what you currently hear as media and political action is "trying to curb the transmission curve", so that exponential dispersion is curbed. If in two years, there is a vaccine and a treatment we will probably not talk about it so much anymore. But the way different countries will come to that point is - different.

In terms of infection rate I've now heard 3 infections instead of 2.5 (as with flu) per infected person on average, but its still difficult do gage this stuff, while you are in the middle of a potentially exponential growth curve (many outside factors).

Also, no country can just set out economically for much longer than those two aformentioned two weeks, without the needs for massive subsidies. So there is a point where everything will go back to normal, with the virus still not 'fully conquered' (see china).

And apparently epidemiologists and virologists are discussing best points when you order a country to go 'on leave' (schools are closed...). To curb early period doubling in the transmission curve. For that point you also look at economic factors.

In Austria (neighbor country to italy) our students are on home schooling now, museum are closed, and schools get closed on monday afair. All that to curb doubling of case numbers early.

edit: Also we dont know how long Immunization lasts, once you had it. There is probably some residual immunization hanging around for quite a while though.. (Until there is some mutation.. )