On this day 78 years ago, the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, ending the war

[tabzer]

Atomic Bombings Were Needless: WW II’s Top US Brass

 

[mrdude]

Atomic Bombings Were Needless: WW II’s Top US Brass

Guess what else was needless, Japan starting a war with everyone - and yet they decided it would be a good idea to invade countries, bomb USA, rape, murder, experiment on people, carry out war crimes etc.... go figure.

Let's not forget the many crimes they commited, including the time they executed and then cannibalized US POWS:
https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/time-japanese-soldiers-cannibalized-us-pilots-world-war-ii/

I can post thousands of links and photos of stuff the Japanese did during the war they started, but we all know they ended up losing and got their just deserts in the end, so we will just leave history in the past where it belongs.

 

[tabzer]

Guess what else was needless, Japan starting a war with everyone - and yet they decided it would be a good idea to invade countries, bomb USA, rape, murder, experiment on people, carry out war crimes etc.... go figure.

Let's not forget the many crimes they commited, including the time they executed and then cannibalized US POWS:
https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/time-japanese-soldiers-cannibalized-us-pilots-world-war-ii/

I can post thousands of links and photos of stuff the Japanese did during the war they started, but we all know they ended up losing and got their just deserts in the end, so we will just leave history in the past where it belongs.

Nobody suggested that crimes against humanity was necessary. The mythos that the Atomic bombs were necessary have been propagated through the west despite an unsettling lack of consensus.

You say that it was justice.

So we are back to my questions that you refuse to answer.

 

[mrdude]

we are back to my questions that you refuse to answer.

You refused to answer mine, "How would you have dealt with the Japanese? ".

 

[chrisk]

Your intention is clear. You have no desire to acknowledge propaganda when you use it. There is no room for me at this conversation.

Say hello to Hitlet for me then. Bye!

You refused to answer mine, "How would you have dealt with the Japanese? ".

He never answered mine either. Typical. Just like the Japanese never formally apologized for their war crimes.

 

[tabzer]

You refused to answer mine, "How would you have dealt with the Japanese? ".

I told you that I can't in saying that it was a ridiculous to pretend that one could assume the position. I provided a relevant link that had alternative scenarios expressed by some people in charge at the time.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Just like the Japanese never formally apologized for their war crimes.

That can't be entirely true, can it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

 

[mrdude]

I told you that I can't in saying that it was a ridiculous to pretend that one could assume the position. I provided a relevant link that had alternative scenarios expressed by some people in charge at the time.

More obfuscation and avoiding the questions, you can't answer the question you were asked because you don't have the answer. You don't have a military mind at all but luckily there's other people that exist that are able to do the fighting and make the decisions on your behalf. You should just stick to being happy paying your taxes and funding the war machine that defends your freedoms and stops you from being enslaved by some mad dictator.
Personally I am very happy that those that came before me sacrificed their lives and made those hard life choices so that I could live in a relative peace. Alghough I did grow up during the cold war, the Argentinians invaded the Flakland Islands, The IRA bombed the UK numerous times, Including my Army camp when I was serving in Germany, and I have server in 4 warzones during those wars in my life (Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan). So I think I know far more about war, sacrifice and freedom than you ever will.
As for the Japanese getting nuked - well they shouldn't have started a war if they weren't prepared to face the consequences of losing. I lam pretty happy they lost, otherwise how many millions of lives would have been snuffed out by them. In my view the world needed to see the devastation that nukes caused and no doubt they have prevented many more wars and coutless millions, billions of lives being snuffed out early and from living in misery.

 

[tabzer]

you can't answer the question you were asked because you don't have the answer.

Exactly. I don't have access to the answer and I don't believe you do either. You may "believe" that you do, but you can never prove it. I shared a link of high ranking intelligence (not you) demonstrating contradiction in the narrative, suggesting more reasonable alternatives, yet you literally ignore it. This is a disingenuous conversation on your part. You either don't understand what I am saying, or you are ignoring it.

so we will just leave history in the past where it belongs

This is a case of wanting your cake and eating it too, by saying this, and then suggesting that there was only one other outcome.

So how about it, how about you answer my questions now?

Saying Japanese people deserved to be bombed blames even the lowest of peasants for crimes they did not commit. You suggest that they are not victims. If they aren't victims, do you believe victims even exist?

Are you okay with the prospect of becoming fodder for a war that you don't believe in?

 

[mrdude]

So how about it, how about you answer my questions now?

I already told you everything you need to know, however don't go demanding answers for your questions when you fail to answer anything that people are asking you. As for your waffle about "alternatives", it's pointless to "bolt the stable door, once the horse has bolted". The bombs were dropped and whether you like it or not the world is now a far safer place because of that.

I'm guessing you were the kind of person that was never disciplined as a kid so I'll say it again for your benefit as you seem to be very slow to pick this up - actions (such as starting a war) have series consequences! (who would have thought eh!). If you want to test this theory out - get yourself out of your liberal basement, give someone some crap and see if you get punched in the face. Then when you are walking about in a daze crying about your bloody nose, tell someone else what you did to recieve the punch and they will laugh at you and call you a moron for being so stupid.

There's a bit in the Bilbe about "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth", personally I am an eye for both your eyes type of guy and if you knocked one of my teeth out I'd knock all of yours out and break your legs while I'm at it. So when Japan decided to bomb the USA, they are lucky the USA only retaliated with two nuclear bombs as they could have wiped the entire chain of Islands off the maps if they had wanted.

 

[tabzer]

I already told you everything you need to know, however don't go demanding answers for your questions when you fail to answer anything that people are asking you. As for your waffle about "alternatives", it's pointless to "bolt the stable door, once the horse has bolted". The bombs were dropped and whether you like it or not the world is now a far safer place because of that.

I gave an honest attempt to explain how I can't answer and the reasoning why. Do you have a reason why you can't or won't answer my questions? I'm not playing chess with you. I'm trying to have an honest conversation. If you don't want to answer my questions, then that's fine. I'm not disputing that the bombs dropped. I'm disputing that you have knowledge of "the alternative".

I'm guessing you were the kind of person that was never disciplined as a kid so I'll say it again for your benefit as you seem to be very slow to pick this up - actions (such as starting a war) have series consequences! (who would have thought eh!). If you want to test this theory out - get yourself out of your liberal basement, give someone some crap and see if you get punched in the face. Then when you are walking about in a daze crying about your bloody nose, tell someone else what you did to recieve the punch and they will laugh at you and call you a moron for being so stupid.

I don't think that's a good analogy. I think it's more like if you got bullied in school, and decided to shoot up the whole school because "they deserve it".

There's a bit in the Bilbe about "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth", personally I am an eye for both your eyes type of guy and if you knocked one of my teeth out I'd knock all of yours out and break your legs while I'm at it.

Internet tough guy is cringe. You are wholly unconvincing. I take it you weren't in intelligence.

 

[mrdude]

Do you have a reason why you can't or won't answer my questions?

I've given you many answers, if are you are too much of a simpleton to understand them I suggest you try to educate yourself some more.

In the meantime how about you do some research on those pesky island dwellers that liked to invade others and carry out brutalities, a quick google search should yeild all the answers for your questions:

 

[tabzer]

I've given you many answers, if are you are too much of a simpleton to understand them I suggest you try to educate yourself some more.

In the meantime how about you do some research on those pesky island dwellers that liked to invade others and carry out brutalities, a quick google search should yeild all the answers for your questions:

I'm not asking about Japanese atrocities. I'm asking about the moral philosophy of killing innocent people, or how you rationalize who is innocent. You said that they weren't innocent people because everyone should be a nationalist. So how would it feel to realize you've been duped into fighting for banks and the wealth of politicians and weapons manufacturers? You swallow your "patriotic" duty and rationalize killing people for your country and your freedom. Do you think Jews deserved to be gassed because they didn't take up their required role as nationalists?

 

[chrisk]

That can't be entirely true, can it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

Please read that page carefully and why there is a controversy.

It's exactly like how you are acting. Trying to be as vague as you can without saying it.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Please read that page carefully and why there is a controversy.

I did. Define "formal". Maybe you're confusing "formal apology" with "reparations".

 

[mrdude]

I'm not asking about Japanese atrocities. I'm asking about the moral philosophy of killing innocent people, or how you rationalize who is innocent. You said that they weren't innocent people because everyone should be a nationalist. So how would it feel to realize you've been duped into fighting for banks and the wealth of politicians and weapons manufacturers? You swallow your "patriotic" duty and rationalize killing people for your country and your freedom. Do you think Jews deserved to be gassed because they didn't take up their required role as nationalists?

This thread is about the two nukes that were rightly dropped on a nation that caused the untold suffering and death to millions of innocent human beings. If you want to start a new thread about killing "innocent people", I suggest you start a new thread without trying to derail this one. You could start with the thread title "Japan killed innocent people - how would you have dealt with them?" or something similar.

 

[tabzer]

This thread is about the two nukes that were rightly dropped on a nation that caused the untold suffering and death to millions of innocent human beings. If you want to start a new thread about killing "innocent people", I suggest you start a new thread without trying to derail this one. You could start with the thread title "Japan killed innocent people - how would you have dealt with them?" or something similar.

Lol. That's pretty telling. There's a direct correlation and this is what waffling looks like.

 

[subcon959]

@tabzer If you read between the lines he's answered your question many times now. He just doesn't want to outright state that he thinks it was justified to kill a lot of innocent people in this situation. It's a fundamental difference in morality and you two aren't going to reconcile it here.

 

[barronwaffles]

In the meantime how about you do some research on those pesky island dwellers that liked to invade others and carry out brutalities

Holy shit I couldn't imagine typing something like that while sporting a hilarious britbong avatar.

That's bold man.

 

[tabzer]

@tabzer If you read between the lines he's answered your question many times now. He just doesn't want to outright state that he thinks it was justified to kill a lot of innocent people in this situation. It's a fundamental difference in morality and you two aren't going to reconcile it here.

As for 2 nukes being dropped on Japan in 1945 - they deserverd everything they got and I have zero sympathy for them.

I can't reconcile your interpretation and this. Just trying to understand how he thinks, not agree with it.

if the civilians are finding it hard to deal with those consequences, they should elect new leaders if they live in a democracy, and if they don't they should start a coup and overthrogh those in charge that are making bad decisions on their behalf.

Reinforces that they aren't innocent, so there's definitely inconsistency between what you "read between the lines" and what he says.