Day 1 of Ramadan

[MaximusDecemus]

Well said droctapu! If morality required religion, we wouldn't have had suicide bombers and witch burnings etc. Morality from within is far better than morality from external sources. Hitler used this to his devious advantage, as have others.

 

[stinkoman]

And don't get me wrong, guys, I've read up on this to an incredible degree, and I've only found facts that point to atheism. It's not like I'm going to make this decision based on a whim.
EDIT: So I took you up on it and started reading the Quran. I literally see nothing that gives me reason to believe in a god. At all. There are no facts. It's just the same stuff. It always is.

 

[Maz7006]

i love how all "peaceful" threads turn into fights.

why say something that is not in place ? ... im not saying that the arguments here are wrong, no you have the right to say whatever you want, but why not move it to another thread ?

 

[The Catboy]

@wasim
Reading a book does not make people believe in something. I have read The Quran, The Bible, The Book of Satan, and several other religious books and still don't believe in most of the stuff in them. Faith is something that comes from within, not something that can be forced onto someone.

i love how all "peaceful" threads turn into fights.

why say something that is not in place ? ... im not saying that the arguments here are wrong, no you have the right to say whatever you want, but why not move it to another thread ?

It's a thread about religion, it's bound to happen.

 

[AlanJohn]

Oh mods lock this thread before it becomes a debate.

 

[TeraS]

Lets keep this thread open, just move the topic onto another thread. Lets just keep this Ramadan talk only

 

[Deleted member 473940]

@Tanveer: I read your previous posts and I know now that you came from a Muslim background and you know alot about Islam.
What made you stop believing in Allah ?
You said you believe what you see only.
Please spare 5 minutes and read the following with an open mind.

I'll tell you one short story about Imam Abu Hanifa and this is the source for it:
http://www.123muslim.com/auliya-allah/2028...ah-atheist.html

Long ago in the city of Baghdad, there was a Muslim empire. On one side of the River Tigris were the royal palaces and on the other side was the city. The Muslims were gathered in the Royal Palace when an athiest approached them. He said to them, 'I don't believe in God, there cannot be a God, you cannot hear Him or see Him, you're wasting your time! Bring me your best debator and I will debate this issue with him.'

The best debator at the time was Imam Abu Hanifah Rahimullah. A messenger from amongst the Muslims was sent over the River Tigris to the city, where Abu Hanifah Rahimullah was, in order to tell him about the athiest who was awaiting him. On crossing the River Tigris, the messenger conveyed the message to Abu Hanifah Rahimullah saying, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, an athiest is waiting for you, to debate you, please come!' Abu Hanifah Rahimullah told the messeneger that he would be on his way.

The messenger went over the River Tigris once again and to the Royal Palaces, where everyone including the athiest awaited the arrival of Abu Hanifah Rahimullah. It was sunset at the time and one hour had passed, but Abu Hanifah Rahimullah still hadn't arrived. Another hour had passed, but still there was no sign of him. The Muslims started to become tense and worried about his late arrival. They did not want the athiest to think that they were too scared to debate him, yet they did not want to take up the challenge themselves as Abu Hanifah Rahimullah was the best of Debators from amongst the Muslims. Another hour passed, and suddenly the athiest started laughing and said, ' Your best debator is too scared! He knows he's wrong, he is too frightened to come and debate with me. I gurantee he will not turn up today.'

The Muslims increased in apprehension and eventually it had passed midnight, and the athiest had a smile on his face. The clock ticked on, and finally Abu Hanifah Rahimullah had arrived. The Muslims inquired about his lateness and remarked, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, a messenger sent for you hours ago, and you arrive now, explain your lateness to us.'

Abu Hanifah Rahimullah apologises for his lateness and begins to explain, while the atheist listens to his story.

'Once the messenger delivered the message to me, I began to make my way to the River Tigris, and on reaching the river bank I realised there was no boat, in order to cross the river. It was getting dark, and I looked around, there was no boat anywhere nor was there a navigator or a sailor in order for me to cross the river to get to the Royal Palaces. I continued to look around for a boat, as I did not want the athiest to think I was running away and did not want to debate with him.

I was standing on the river bank looking for a navigator or a boat when something caught my attention in the middle of the river. I looked forward, and to my amazement I saw planks of wood rising to the surface from the sea bed. I was shocked, amazed, I couldn't believe what I saw seeing. Ready made planks of wood were rising up to the surface and joining together. They were all the same width and length, I was astounded at what I saw.

I continued to look into the middle of the river, and then I saw nails coming up from the sea floor. They positioned themselves onto the boat and held the planks together, without them being banged. I stood in amazement and thought to myself, 'Oh Allah, how can this happen, planks of wood rising to the surface by itself, and then nails positioning themselves onto the boat without being banged?' I could not undertsand what was happening before my eyes.'

The athiest meanwhile was listening with a smile on his face. Abu Hanifah Rahimullah continued, 'I was still standing on the river bank watching these planks of wood join together with nails. I could see water seeping through the gaps in the wood, and suddenly I saw a sealant appear from the river and it began sealing the gaps without someone having poured it, again I thought, 'Ya Allah, how is this possible, how can sealant appear and seal the gaps without someone having poured it, and nails appear without someone having banged them.' I looked closer and I could see a boat forming before my eyes, I stood in amazement and was filled with shock. All of a sudden a sail appeared and I thought to myself, 'How is this happening, a boat has appeared before my eyes by itself, planks of wood, nails, sealant and now a sail, but how can I use this boat in order to cross the river to the Royal Palaces?' I stood staring in wonderment and suddenly the boat began to move. It came towards me against the current. It stood floating beside me while I was on the river bank, as if telling me to embark onto it. I went on the boat and yet again it began to move. There was no navigator or sailor on the boat, and the boat began to travel towards the direction of the royal palaces, without anyone having programmed it as to where to go. I could not understand what was happening, and how this boat had formed and was taking me to my destination against the flow of water. The boat eventually reached the other side of the River Tigris and I disembarked. I turned around and the boat had disappeared, and that is why I am late.'

At this moment, the athiest brust out laughing and remarked, 'Oh Abu Hanifah, I heard that you were the best debator from amongst the Muslims, I heard that you were the wisest, the most knowledgable from amongst your people. From seeing you today, I can say that you show none of these qualities. You speak of a boat appearing from nowhere, without someone having built it. Nails positioning themselves without someone having banged them, sealant being poured without someone having poured it, and the boat taking you to your destination without a navigator against the tide, your taking childish, your talking rediculous, I swear I do not belive a word of it!'

Abu Hanifah Rahimullah turned to the athiest and replied, 'You don't believe a word of it? You dont believe that nails can appear by themselves? You dont believe sealant can be poured by itself? You dont believe that a boat can move without a navigator, hence you don't believe that a boat can appear without a boat maker?'

The athiest remarked defiantly, 'Yes I dont believe a word of it!'

Abu Hanifah Rahimullah replied, 'If you cannot believe that a boat came into being without a boat maker, than this is only a boat, how can you believe that the whole world, the universe, the stars, the oceans, and the planets came into being without a creator?

The athiest astonished at his reply got up and fled.

Sorry for the very long comment

I dont want to disrespect your beliefs, but have you been there to see it yourself? No..

There are other religions with a lot of similar stories or whatever you want to call it and what are those seen as "Myth".. specifically "Mythology".

Other things that I dislike about serious religious muslim people, that they think they know everything! Your existance doesnt hold any value to them at all.. they are the almight followers of "allah".
I know this might not be the case with everyone, but those people arent open about things. They would rather have their eyes closed and believe everything about islam rather than trying to seek for the truth.

I am not obliged to answer to any questions to anyone regarding WHY I dont follow what my ancestors have.
Been through these a billion times with many different people.

Anyway, no offence.

I am tired and bored of discussing this matter and would rather not continue wasting my time giving serious thoughts on that.. as of now.

 

[stinkoman]

The Book of Satan

Catboy, I know what LaVeyan Satanism is and I'm still surprised by you having been interested in it.

 

[The Catboy]

The Book of Satan

Catboy, I know what LaVeyan Satanism is and I'm still surprised by you having been interested in it.

Actually I am more interested in knowledge and not the religion itself.

 

[TeraS]

I am tired and bored of discussing this matter and would rather not continue wasting my time giving serious thoughts on that.. as of now.

I get what your saying, but whenever you can please answer the questions I asked you. Simple and short answers would do, just want to understand a few things not going to force you down any beliefs.

Guys who are off topic - if its not on Ramadan another thread please, when its Christmas time you dont see Muslims bombarding your threads trying to force down their belief. So in respect do the same for this, if you have questions on Islam or whatsoever make a thread on it.

 

[stinkoman]

The Book of Satan

Catboy, I know what LaVeyan Satanism is and I'm still surprised by you having been interested in it.

Actually I am more interested in knowledge and not the religion itself.

That's a great way of looking at things.

 

[NBA Mj]

It's neither. I've looked for answers and am past it. The idea of religion, frankly, sounds silly and immature to me. It's something that I believe humanity should have grown out of ages ago. I don't "do whatever I want without any restrictions," in fact I'm probably more moral than many, many religious people. I see no reason to believe in a god when I'm quite capable of living without an imaginary friend to hold my hand when I'm feeling sad or alone, thanks. I don't need further justification for my actions other than "after thinking about this for a while, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably the best course of action." Your implication that I can't be a good person without the aid of some likely-nonexistent moral instructor is highly offensive, and actually makes me worry a bit about your own mental wellbeing. The thought that atheists would just randomly do whatever the hell they want is an alarming conclusion and it shows that you're incapable of telling right from wrong without being promised eternal hellfire if you don't. The fact that you compare me to an animal is also disturbing. I don't live a purposeless life. I'm not a total dickhead because I don't believe in gods. When I say I'm glad I'm not religious, I don't mean that I'm not religious because I don't want to fast or attend places of worship, I mean I don't want to do that because, to me, you're saying that you have to do all of these things to appeal to something that I don't even think exists, and I think that that's a lot of trouble for nothing.
Sorry, but it's honesty.

I didn't say your a person without a goal and I didn't say your an animal. I never intend to offend anyone
The way we think that atheists would do whatever they want is exactly how some people who know nothing about Islam sees it as being all about terroism and kiliing and bombing others like our friend MaximusDecemus

I don't know how you live your life and make your judgements, you might be happier than myself, and I have no right to judge you or tell you what to do. Obviously your old enough to know whats right from wrong.
Just wanted to clear our some points.

Anyways, seriously this thread has really turned into an argument.
I'm out now ^^

 

[wasim]

@wasim
Reading a book does not make people believe in something. I have read The Quran, The Bible, The Book of Satan, and several other religious books and still don't believe in most of the stuff in them. Faith is something that comes from within, not something that can be forced onto someone.

many have converted to islam just by reading qur'an
and by reading , it doesn't mean that you should read it like a novel or something ......... you should think abt each of the lines and try understanding them

in qur'an it says ' those who think , will actually believe ' ( thats not the exact statement )

and i am not arguing with you at all.......

 

[The Catboy]

@wasim
Reading a book does not make people believe in something. I have read The Quran, The Bible, The Book of Satan, and several other religious books and still don't believe in most of the stuff in them. Faith is something that comes from within, not something that can be forced onto someone.

many have converted to islam just by reading qur'an
and by reading , it doesn't mean that you should read it like a novel or something ......... you should think abt each of the lines and try understanding them

in qur'an it says ' those who think , will actually believe ' ( thats not the exact statement )

and i am not arguing with you at all.......

The funny thing is, that's just how I read all religious books, thinking them through.
I don't see how me not believing means I don't think. I believe in knowledge, logic, and honor. I don't need a religion for that.
It's not to say I don't have faith, I just don't see the reason I need to label it.


EDIT: Also Happy Ramadan everyone!

 

[AsPika2219]

Happy Ramadan everyone! I am second time done for fasting day.

 

[Krestent]

nvm.

 

[SamAsh07]

Ramadan Kareem everyone!

It'is the second day of Ramadan now. Works really well for me. I am a Muslim, sunni, and are from Egypt.

Hope everything is going well with you too.

Yeah I'm from Bahrain, haha don't talk about the heat, damn, it's over 40 degrees celsius...going out is like stepping into an Oven lol. But I'll live!! Fasting is much more important than some heat.

Now that it's Ramadan, have people stopped demonstrating in the streets?
I do not know if you know it but a little interesting to find out.

/MrAimenify.

Lol Demonstrations stopped way back in April, since then the Shia's have been on lock down, and I must say, it's so much better to live here with them stuck in their homes lol.

 

[bsfmtl123]

Ramadan Mubarak!

Hi Everyone! Today is my second fast......the first one was pretty much hard and so is the second............It's so hot here which makes me thirsty.

 

[SamAsh07]

Ramadan Mubarak!

Hi Everyone! Today is my second fast......the first one was pretty much hard and so is the second............It's so hot here which makes me thirsty.

What about the electricity pal?? You live in Pak

I heard people in Karachi are suffering from power loss, as usual.

 

[bsfmtl123]

What about the electricity pal?? You live in Pak I heard people in Karachi are suffering from power loss, as usual.

Yeah! They are.......but I live in Lahore and It's better here than in Karachi.......Karachi is going through the darkest and the most devastating period right now

We should pray for them