Ground Zero Mosque. Yes or No?

[controlio]

Ah well... we need an enemy... 30 years ago the Russian or communists where our sworn enemys...now there are the fanatic Islamists...
Religion comes in handy, it polarize people. As you can see in this threat.
I mean... there has to be a place to drop the bombs...
What would happen to all thoses workers working in the US arms industries when there is no need to replace this stuff?
They need the arms industries, sadly.

It doesnt matter if 911 was fake or not... the US had a good reason to start a long and bloody war in Afghanistan...
Oh, and Irak, suddenly Irak was also involved in 911 and had weapons of mass destruction, ehehe,...

For the mosque...they should allowed to build it... if you the US ARE the land of the free.... everything else would be hypocritical.

 

[Deleted User]

what's up...with the...ellpisis...? Are you about...to...collapse???

 

[emigre]

My mental example was of the traditional problems between France and Germany going back teh Franco-Prussian War. Where the tensions were brought again by the World Wars but were finally brought to a peace by cooperation between the two states by the ECSC.

 

[taktularCBo]

why my post was removed..I diden't link to anything.

 

[Overlord Nadrian]

Here's the sum up

*snip*It's not built ON Ground Zero, but NEAR. Geeze, how many times do I have to repeat this before anyone will ever pay attention to it?

I agree. We must push things ahead, not dwell. Look at how many people disagreed with FaceBook's new design, but FB stood firm and ignored them. Now even more people use facebook than ever. (Not related, but good case-study)Well, that's a rather bad comparison again. There is absolutely no correlation between the amount of new users per day and the new design (Facebook's design has changed so many times already). If anything, I would say less of the old Facebook frequenters are on it right now (take me for an example, I used to spam the shit out of Facebook, now I do nearly nothing on it anymore, just like this place really). I also had to laugh at your (a tad too) high self-esteem.

why my post was removed..I diden't link to anything.

QUOTE(p1ngpong @ Aug 12 2010, 03:57 PM)

You were replying to a post that linked to a rather nasty little anti Semitic hate forum.

I trashed the post you replied to and both responses to it.

 

[taktularCBo]

In my post I said how stupid this guy was and that antisemitism is the worse way, I even called him Nazi! Now it looks like I linked to a antisemitic hate forum. can't you be next time more specific, while deleting posts?

 

[Overlord Nadrian]

Well, it takes time to type stuff, and it's not like the mods spend their entire lives on here, so of course they won't type perfectly appropriate descriptions everytime. p1ngpong explained the misunderstanding, so anyone actually reading the topic will know you didn't do anything wrong.

 

[emigre]

Here's a decent article on teh whole situation.

 

[Sterling]

I generally dislike relying on foreign websites to provide news about the US. There are a lot of people out there that dislike the US, and would love nothing less than a chance to demonize the general US populace.

 

[Depravo]

I generally dislike relying on foreign websites to provide news about the US. There are a lot of people out there that dislike the US, and would love nothing less than a chance to demonize the general US populace.

It works both ways - your own media may report the situation in a slightly more 'patriotic' light. It's best to see both sides and make your own mind up.

 

[Skizzo]

I have a simple take on this really. America was built on one thing, Freedom.
Actually, if you do your research, you'll find that America was built largely on the backs of slaves and the slaughter and theft of Native Americans. Please, save this 'myth' of America for the less informed. Let's try and keep this discussion based on facts.

As if that weren't enough, the myth also obscures the reality of American prosperity: that it is not solely or even primarily the product of American ingenuity and the inherent greatness of the American people, but of brute force, brutally applied. The story of American wealth begins with a continent rich in natural resources, devoid of natural enemies and protected from the rest of the world by two oceans, conquered through genocide and developed by slavery, fed by the most rapid destruction of resources mankind has ever seen, and growing by hammering the rest of the world, murdering innocent people and stealing the resources to which the victims and their progeny should have been entitled. For this you congratulate yourselves, and your politicians congratulate you, as righteous Christians whose worldly wealth signifies your holiness. Or something.

Here, for some self-edification...

http://winterpatriot.blogspot.com/2010/04/...can-people.html

Let's just get all the bullshit about what America is and isn't out of the way and proceed from there...shall we?


I am very well aware of what you are trying to get at here. I am a 26 year old college educated Man. There were many many injustices that happened while America was being built. I think in today's day and age most people are aware of them. There was still a underlying dream that i was speaking of. The fact remains that we here in America enjoy a amount of freedom that so many people could only dream of. I for one am thankful for it. The path to where we are may not have always been correct, and some things will never be forgotten, but history is history. We learned and truly try to make this a place of freedom for everyone. I do at least.

So, as a 26 year old college educated 'Man', you'd take the 'building of America' and distill it down to the 'simple take' that America was built on ONE thing, 'Freedom'. That's nonsense. As I'm sure you are aware, being a 26 year old college educated 'Man', several of the 'founding fathers' of this 'great nation' were slave owners, and defended slavery and this 'great nation' would go on to wage a war over slavery. Honestly, how can you reconcile that with the idea that America was built on one thing, 'Freedom'? That's the myth that the mass media and our educational system continually pounds into our heads, but that doesn't make it true. And as a 26 year old college educated 'Man', you've had every opportunity to dispel that myth on your own, yet you continue to propagate it. To what end?

And I'm sure you are also aware that slavery wasn't the only 'debate' going on amongst our 'founding fathers'. Federalists and anti-federalists is what they were...some wanting more freedoms and some, not so much. Again, this hardly supports your 'one thing, Freedom' notion.

Nor do most of the other things we've done since, including but not limited to the gutting of the Constitution since 9/11. As I said, the only one who can take away our freedoms is our own govt. And our good military goes right along with it, which is why they were used to disarm and confiscate the weapons of the citizens after Hurricane Katrina, all ruled to be illegal by the courts, but not surprisingly, the ruling having done nothing to actually help those affected in getting their arms returned to them.

Make no mistake. The 'myth' of America is a great one, but it is a myth nonetheless, and that's easily proven when all the facts are objectively taken into consideration.

---posts merged---

Steel looses its integrity at less than half that temperature. Play-doh is a solid, and the twin towers weight approximately 300 thousand tonnes. I don't think play-doh can support hundreds of thousands of tonnes.
I'm still waiting to see the first demolitons company get a permit to bring down a steel structure such as the Twin Towers, and more importanly WTC7, which wasn't hit by a plane, using only jet fuel spilled all over a few floors and then simply ignited. With no explosive charges whatsoever. Guess what? IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Because it is impossible to bring down a building, especially those as tall as the Twin Towers, in a 'controlled demolition' fashion, without...you guessed it...controlled demolitions. And while you point out that steel 'looses' its integrity at less than half that temperature, maybe you could also explain at the same time how it is that other steel structures have burned for days on end without collapsing under their own weight? Remember, WTC7 was a steel structure as well, and reportedly much more reinforced due to the offices stationed there, yet it fell in the same type of controlled demolition fashion as the other two.

---posts merged---

QUOTE(Guild McCommunist @ Aug 11 2010, 01:29 PM)

QUOTE(kiafazool @ Aug 11 2010, 07:28 PM)

i know its not on ground zero its near
where did i write on?

and fyi NOT BULLSHIT
ill show u the damn video

These conspiracy theories are just stupid, don't even bother. You're probably trolling anyway. And does it matter how it happened? A lot of people died for no reason, regardless of who did it.

WTF?! Regardless of who did it?! Are you fucking serious? It doesn't matter who did it, only that people died? Then why in the fuck did we go on to wage a war against a specific nation if it doesn't matter who did it? And you want to talk about stupid? Of course it matters who in the hell we placed the blame upon...otherwise there would be no fucking 'War on Global Terror'. While you talk of 'conspiracy theories', which if you knew the actual definition you'd know that the government's account of the event is nothing more than that as well, I take it you've never heard of Operation Northwoods. Not a conspiracy, but in fact, an actual military plan presented to Kennedy which called for the 'terrorizing' of Americans by govt. agents pretending to be Cubans in order to garner widespread public support for a war against them. Kennedy rejected it. I doubt had good old god loving (and godly message receiving) Bush been in power at the time, he would have done the same. It's freely available for your perusal should you actually wish to educate yourself on the matter instead of making blanket assumptions.

YES FOLKS, during the Cuban-American missile crisis, our President at the time was presented by the military leaders of the time with a plan to terrorize Americans, making it look like Cubans were to blame, all in order to wage a war against Cuba. THAT IS FACT. Not conspiracy theory. And all the documents are freely available to anyone doubting this. And YES, THIS INCLUDED THE POSSIBILITY OF KILLING INNOCENT AMERICANS.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

To the best of my knowledge this document has never been shown to be anything other than authentic.

 

[BlueStar]

I love the armchair demolitions experts that appear when 9/11 is brought up. "XXXX had never happened before!!!" When was the last time someone deliberately flew a passenger jet, with a completely full tank of fuel, into a huge building with loads of heavy floors above? People are comparing that to normal fires in normal buildings, christ on a jetski. "It fell down into itself, it looked like those controlled explosions I saw on TV!" How are you expecting it to fall? Timber! Like a tree? What forces are acting on it in a sideways direction? Because I can think of only one force acting on it when the steel gave way and that was pulling it straight down. "They fired missiles at the WTC!" Why would you fire missiles at something that was about to get hit by two enormous bombs? "Bush did it to gain public support!" So why did his response consist of sitting in a pre-school looking like he had no idea what the fuck to do? "The Jews did it to start a war against their enemies!" So why pin it on Afghanis rather than Syrians, Iranians or Lebanese?

Bush and Israel certainly exploited the situation for their own ends, used it as an excuse to go into a stupid and illegal war in Iraq and to enable Gaza to remain a prison camp, but anyone who thinks the act itself was arranged by anyone other than Islamic Extremists is pants on head retarded.

This tickled me when it came up a few years ago.

Was the Death Star Attack an Inside Job?

1) Why were a handful of rebel fighters able to penetrate the defenses of a battle station that had the capability of destroying an entire planet and the defenses to ward off several fleets of battle ships?

2) Why did Grand Moff Tarkin refuse to deploy the station’s large fleet of TIE Fighters until it was too late? Was he acting on orders from somebody to not shoot down the rebel attack force? If so, who, and why?

3) Why was the rebel pilot who supposedly destroyed the Death Star reported to be on the Death Star days, maybe hours, prior to its destruction? Why was he allowed to escape, and why were several individuals dressed in Stormtrooper uniforms seen helping him?

4) Why has there not been an investigation into allegations that Darth Vader, the second-ranking member of the Imperial Government, is in fact the father of the pilot who allegedly destroyed the Death Star?

5) Why did Lord Vader decide to break all protocols and personally pilot a lightly armored TIE Fighter? Conveniently, this placed Lord Vader outside of the Death Star when it was destroyed, where he was also conveniently able to escape from a large-sized rebel fleet that had just routed the Imperial forces. Why would Lord Vader, one of the highest ranking members of the Imperial Government, suddenly decide to fly away from the Death Star in the middle of a battle? Did he know something that the rest of the Imperial Navy didn’t?

6) How could any pilot shoot a missile into a 2 meter-wide exhaust port, let alone a pilot with no formal training, whose only claim to fame was his ability to “bullseye womprats” on Tatooine? This shot, according to one pilot, would be “impossible, even for a computer.” Yet, according to additional evidence, the pilot who allegedly fired the missile turned off his targeting computer when he was supposedly firing the shot that destroyed the Death Star. Why have these discrepancies never been investigated, let alone explained?

7) Why has their been no investigation into evidence that the droids who provided the rebels with the Death Star plans were once owned by none other than Lord Vader himself, and were found, conveniently, by the pilot who destroyed the Death Star, and who is also believed to be Lord Vader’s son? Evidence also shows that the droids were brought to one Ben Kenobi, who, records indicate, was Darth Vader’s teacher many years earlier! Are all these personal connections between the conspirators and a key figure in the Imperial government supposed to be coincidences?
8) How could a single missile destroy a battle station the size of a moon? No records, anywhere, show that any battle station or capital ship has ever been destroyed by a single missile. Furthermore, analysis of the tape of the last moments of the Death Star show numerous small explosions along its surface, prior to it exploding completely! Why does all evidence indicate that strategically placed explosives, not a single missile, is what destroyed the Death Star?

 

[Overlord Nadrian]

i know its not on ground zero its near
where did i write on?

and fyi NOT BULLSHIT
ill show u the damn video

These conspiracy theories are just stupid, don't even bother. You're probably trolling anyway. And does it matter how it happened? A lot of people died for no reason, regardless of who did it.

WTF?! Regardless of who did it?! Are you fucking serious? It doesn't matter who did it, only that people died? Then why in the fuck did we go on to wage a war against a specific nation if it doesn't matter who did it? And you want to talk about stupid? Of course it matters who in the hell we placed the blame upon...otherwise there would be no fucking 'War on Global Terror'. While you talk of 'conspiracy theories', which if you knew the actual definition you'd know that the government's account of the event is nothing more than that as well, I take it you've never heard of Operation Northwoods. Not a conspiracy, but in fact, an actual military plan presented to Kennedy which called for the 'terrorizing' of Americans by govt. agents pretending to be Cubans in order to garner widespread public support for a war against them. Kennedy rejected it. I doubt had good old god loving (and godly message receiving) Bush been in power at the time, he would have done the same. It's freely available for your perusal should you actually wish to educate yourself on the matter instead of making blanket assumptions.

YES FOLKS, during the Cuban-American missile crisis, our President at the time was presented by the military leaders of the time with a plan to terrorize Americans, making it look like Cubans were to blame, all in order to wage a war against Cuba. THAT IS FACT. Not conspiracy theory. And all the documents are freely available to anyone doubting this. And YES, THIS INCLUDED THE POSSIBILITY OF KILLING INNOCENT AMERICANS.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

To the best of my knowledge this document has never been shown to be anything other than authentic.

He was trying to say that, nearly 9 years after the events, it really doesn't matter anymore. Heck, even when the crashes had just happened, it already didn't matter. One country will always accuse the other of doing something bad, et vice versa. The war on global terror is a joke, and you know it.

So, you should actually educate yourself on how people get a point across over the interwebz. Guild didn't make a blanket assumption (it wasn't even an assumption FFS).

*points at sig*

 

[taktularCBo]

The war on global terror is a joke, and you know it.

sorry, but this point isn't true.
Islamophobia is a joke and just stupid, but terrorism is not.

 

[DunkrWunkah]

It would be in really bad taste to build a mosque near Ground Zero. It's just not a good idea, and offensive towards the families that lost loved ones during the attacks.

 

[Slyakin]

I don't exactly get WHY they want a masjid there.

If they want to build one, go over a few more blocks?

 

[TrapperKeeperX]

9/11 was fake
it was done to make islam look bad
this is all a setup done by bush/administration
i saw this video (i cant find it in my email, but if someone wants to see it, ill look for it)
it showed how the 9/11 was fake and it couldn't have been done naturally
if a plane crashed on the 80-90 floor and it bust there, how is the damn building supposed to FALL

like what the heck
it was made of steel and steel melts at about 1370 degrees C (2500 F)
and fuel burns at 800-1200 C

Jet fuel burns extremely hot. It can burn anywhere from 800 degrees to 1200 degrees. Some myths say it gets hot enough to melt steel but that's not true.

ok even if the burning fuel melted the steel
it could've only melted about till 70th floor and it was supposed to fall sideways, not downwards (PHYSICS)
and what happened was that it fell down
HOW??
the only way it could've was from bombs planted in the basement or 1st floor


IT ALL FAKE
to make islam/muslims look bad


on topic: yes i think it should be built on ground zero
its the least america can give us considering all the blame was put on us

Of course The Government with Bush Administration,The Bush Family,Larry Silverstein the one who had the Lease ad there is alot more people who knew about it anyway Lied about 9/11 it was so they can make money off this murderous plot. It's all about money & religion! I'm an Atheist and I don't want no Mosque anyway I don't like religion anyway and I hate religious extremists anyway they're ignorant & close minded and the extremists beliefs get the better of them. If you spread fear from religion your fucking retarded!!!!!

 

[MelodieOctavia]

9/11 was fake
it was done to make islam look bad
this is all a setup done by bush/administration
i saw this video (i cant find it in my email, but if someone wants to see it, ill look for it)
it showed how the 9/11 was fake and it couldn't have been done naturally
if a plane crashed on the 80-90 floor and it bust there, how is the damn building supposed to FALL

like what the heck
it was made of steel and steel melts at about 1370 degrees C (2500 F)
and fuel burns at 800-1200 C

Jet fuel burns extremely hot. It can burn anywhere from 800 degrees to 1200 degrees. Some myths say it gets hot enough to melt steel but that's not true.

ok even if the burning fuel melted the steel
it could've only melted about till 70th floor and it was supposed to fall sideways, not downwards (PHYSICS)
and what happened was that it fell down
HOW??
the only way it could've was from bombs planted in the basement or 1st floor


IT ALL FAKE
to make islam/muslims look bad


on topic: yes i think it should be built on ground zero
its the least america can give us considering all the blame was put on us

Of course The Government with Bush Administration,The Bush Family,Larry Silverstein the one who had the Lease ad there is alot more people who knew about it anyway Lied about 9/11 it was so they can make money off this murderous plot. It's all about money & religion! I'm an Atheist and I don't want no Mosque anyway I don't like religion anyway and I hate religious extremists anyway they're ignorant & close minded and the extremists beliefs get the better of them. If you spread fear from religion your fucking retarded!!!!!

There is such a thing as an atheist extremist, and I think you fit the bill, good sir. quit spreading these retarded conspiracy theories. And, by the way, almost all religions are based on fear. Its not like anyone WANTS to go to hell right?

 

[Skizzo]

I love the armchair demolitions experts that appear when 9/11 is brought up. "XXXX had never happened before!!!" When was the last time someone deliberately flew a passenger jet, with a completely full tank of fuel, into a huge building with loads of heavy floors above? People are comparing that to normal fires in normal buildings, christ on a jetski.

Yeah, love 'em about as much as you gotta love the armchair pilots. 'Completely full tank of fuel' means one thing and one thing only. Why would two planes, neither even coming close to their full capacity, nor coming close to their maximum flying distance, have 'completely full tanks of fuel'? Quite simply, they wouldn't, especially not Flight 11, a 767-200ER which can fly a distance of nearly three times the planned distance (under optimal conditions, but I seriously doubt the conditions were anything that would warrant carrying almost 3 times the necessary fuel) it was intending to fly. Seeing as how you fail so badly in your first point, why go on? I mean seriously, they were 'completely full' even though those planes were in the air for roughly 47 & 49 minutes? Hmm...pants on head retarded is one way of putting it I guess.

I don't recall anyone mentioning any specific buildings, but what makes the fires of the Towers so different? The fuel you mention? What do you think that huge black cloud was we all saw from both planes when they struck? It was the fuel exploding and being largely (notice I didn't say 'completely'!) consumed (not too efficiently I might add which the black smoke is an indicator of). Ever pour a bunch of lighter fluid onto charcoal without letting it soak in and instead immediately lighting it. Yeah, that doesn't work too well either. So, since we know it's not the fuel that makes the Towers' fires so different, what is it? And whatever you'd like to suggest it is, it better also be applicable to WTC7, which also collapsed after a very short time and a comparitively small fire. So, that would eliminate the planes' impacts, and even the jet fuel. What made that fire so less than normal then?

 

[Fluto]

yes


its next to it also i dont get why people are so angry this is not a sign of "haha we bet you we are going t take over", No its not for those people out there.